Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

fearn · 29th November 2008, 02:58 AM

Hi Tim,

Dumb question, but could there be a mistaken repair on your woomera?

Specifically, the b/w picture you posted in #9 shows a hook at a more acute angle and a shell base that's oriented at an opposite angle to your specimen. What I would suggest is that, perhaps, the hook on your specimen was a bit loose, sliding up and down through the socket, and somebody positioned it on the wrong side and glued it in place.

Any evidence of a repair, or does the angle of the peg vary in samples?

So far as the megafauna extinction driving out the atlatl, I'd have to say that wouldn't work.

The big reason is that, in America, the megafauna went extinct around 10-12,000 years ago (except for the mammoths that held out to 1650 BC in the Arctic). However, the bow and arrow were apparently introduced to the New World around 4000 years ago by the paleo-eskimos. The atlatl was still used by the Aztec into historic times.

In Australia and New Guinea, the megafauna went extinct (apparently) around 40-50,000 years ago, but the people still use woomeras. And in Papua New Guinea, some tribes use bows, some tribes use spearthrowers--in place of bows? In addition? So we don't see a global replacement of one for the other.

Bottom line: I don't think there's a correlation between changing diets and changing gathering technology. I'd suggest that things like range and ease of manufacture probably matter more. Or, perhaps, losing a battle to a troop of archers might have inspired people to change over...

So far as Australian woomeras go, if Mr. McCormack is correct, then the spears thrown by woomeras are stiff enough to be used as handheld spears, and can be used in hand, as walking sticks, etc. I'm not sure the spears are that rigid, and we'll have to post some specimens. What I am more sure of is that atlatl darts are too small and thin for such uses, so I can see why they'd be replaced by bow and arrow--in some places. Remember that some people retained the atlatl technology for roughly 3000 years after the replacement became available, and the Maya apparently never adopted bows until Europeans introduced them in historic times.

Anyway, the switch from spearthrower to bow is a pretty complicated affair.

Now we've got a debate!

Best,

F

29th November 2008, 02:58 AM	#16
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, Dumb question, but could there be a mistaken repair on your woomera? Specifically, the b/w picture you posted in #9 shows a hook at a more acute angle and a shell base that's oriented at an opposite angle to your specimen. What I would suggest is that, perhaps, the hook on your specimen was a bit loose, sliding up and down through the socket, and somebody positioned it on the wrong side and glued it in place. Any evidence of a repair, or does the angle of the peg vary in samples? So far as the megafauna extinction driving out the atlatl, I'd have to say that wouldn't work. The big reason is that, in America, the megafauna went extinct around 10-12,000 years ago (except for the mammoths that held out to 1650 BC in the Arctic). However, the bow and arrow were apparently introduced to the New World around 4000 years ago by the paleo-eskimos. The atlatl was still used by the Aztec into historic times. In Australia and New Guinea, the megafauna went extinct (apparently) around 40-50,000 years ago, but the people still use woomeras. And in Papua New Guinea, some tribes use bows, some tribes use spearthrowers--in place of bows? In addition? So we don't see a global replacement of one for the other. Bottom line: I don't think there's a correlation between changing diets and changing gathering technology. I'd suggest that things like range and ease of manufacture probably matter more. Or, perhaps, losing a battle to a troop of archers might have inspired people to change over... So far as Australian woomeras go, if Mr. McCormack is correct, then the spears thrown by woomeras are stiff enough to be used as handheld spears, and can be used in hand, as walking sticks, etc. I'm not sure the spears are that rigid, and we'll have to post some specimens. What I am more sure of is that atlatl darts are too small and thin for such uses, so I can see why they'd be replaced by bow and arrow--in some places. Remember that some people retained the atlatl technology for roughly 3000 years after the replacement became available, and the Maya apparently never adopted bows until Europeans introduced them in historic times. Anyway, the switch from spearthrower to bow is a pretty complicated affair. Now we've got a debate! Best, F