Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - how do we classify a weapon tourist,origin,time period ?

A. G. Maisey · 26th July 2015, 11:47 PM

Jens, what you have written about variation in names in the cultures and societies from which objects originate is something that is very familiar to me, as it is precisely the situation that applies in my own field, the Javanese keris.

The name of what we now call a keris in normal, colloquial speech varies at the present time depending upon the level of language being used, and the use to which the keris is being put --- and that's only in Javanese. In the languages of other keris bearing societies the name changes yet again.

But the common name, world-wide, is keris, even though spellings can vary:- kris, creese, cris --- probably a few more variations that I cannot readily recall.

If we look at the archaic Javanese literature, we find that it is virtually impossible to know when the keris as we now know it, is being referred to. Yes, the word keris can be found, but we don't know if that word refers to the keris as we know it.

Also appearing in the old literature, in contexts that seem to indicate that a keris is being referred to are other words. Amongst these other words are two words that are perhaps the best candidates for our present understanding of what is meant by "keris". These words are "tewek" and "tuhuk".

But then we encounter a bump in the road, because "tewek" seems to be used in a way that indicates strong, downward stabs, and/or repeated stabs, whilst "tuhuk" seems to indicate a slower execution, or a single execution, of the blow. Possibly the two words could be used to refer to the same weapon, but used in two different ways.

The word "keris" can be understood to indicate a slicing motion.

Then we have the word "curiga" which is another word used to refer to a keris, and "curiga" implies something that is not particularly sharp.

So, with all these words to choose from that can be used to refer to essentially the same object, what is the correct word to use? Well, the owners of the society of origin of the object use the word "keris" in colloquial speech and only use other words when they are speaking formally, and using higher levels of speech.

In the world community outside the keris bearing societies of SE Asia, keris is the universally recognised word that is used. In fact, as "kris" and "creese" the word has even entered the English language (Oxford).

Since the purpose of language is transfer an idea from one person's mind, into the mind of another person, then the word that we use to transfer that idea should be a word that the other person will understand, so when I'm trying to communicate with another person who is unlikely to know all the words that can be used to refer to a keris, I use the word "keris". But if I am communicating with a Javanese person I may use an entirely different word, and if I am discussing something in the archaic literature of Jawa I may use another word again.

So the choice of a descriptor can, and perhaps should vary according to the context in which it is used --- but we cannot do that unless we apply the guidelines that I suggested in my earlier post.

I am only using my own particular field as an example here, but I would be surprised is similar problems with affixation of names did not also apply in other fields.

The above is one of the reasons why I am not particularly interested in what name is given to various objects, keris included.

26th July 2015, 11:47 PM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,704	Jens, what you have written about variation in names in the cultures and societies from which objects originate is something that is very familiar to me, as it is precisely the situation that applies in my own field, the Javanese keris. The name of what we now call a keris in normal, colloquial speech varies at the present time depending upon the level of language being used, and the use to which the keris is being put --- and that's only in Javanese. In the languages of other keris bearing societies the name changes yet again. But the common name, world-wide, is keris, even though spellings can vary:- kris, creese, cris --- probably a few more variations that I cannot readily recall. If we look at the archaic Javanese literature, we find that it is virtually impossible to know when the keris as we now know it, is being referred to. Yes, the word keris can be found, but we don't know if that word refers to the keris as we know it. Also appearing in the old literature, in contexts that seem to indicate that a keris is being referred to are other words. Amongst these other words are two words that are perhaps the best candidates for our present understanding of what is meant by "keris". These words are "tewek" and "tuhuk". But then we encounter a bump in the road, because "tewek" seems to be used in a way that indicates strong, downward stabs, and/or repeated stabs, whilst "tuhuk" seems to indicate a slower execution, or a single execution, of the blow. Possibly the two words could be used to refer to the same weapon, but used in two different ways. The word "keris" can be understood to indicate a slicing motion. Then we have the word "curiga" which is another word used to refer to a keris, and "curiga" implies something that is not particularly sharp. So, with all these words to choose from that can be used to refer to essentially the same object, what is the correct word to use? Well, the owners of the society of origin of the object use the word "keris" in colloquial speech and only use other words when they are speaking formally, and using higher levels of speech. In the world community outside the keris bearing societies of SE Asia, keris is the universally recognised word that is used. In fact, as "kris" and "creese" the word has even entered the English language (Oxford). Since the purpose of language is transfer an idea from one person's mind, into the mind of another person, then the word that we use to transfer that idea should be a word that the other person will understand, so when I'm trying to communicate with another person who is unlikely to know all the words that can be used to refer to a keris, I use the word "keris". But if I am communicating with a Javanese person I may use an entirely different word, and if I am discussing something in the archaic literature of Jawa I may use another word again. So the choice of a descriptor can, and perhaps should vary according to the context in which it is used --- but we cannot do that unless we apply the guidelines that I suggested in my earlier post. I am only using my own particular field as an example here, but I would be surprised is similar problems with affixation of names did not also apply in other fields. The above is one of the reasons why I am not particularly interested in what name is given to various objects, keris included.