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Originally Posted by fearn
So far as short blades vs. long blades, I think the problem is the size of the anvil. I know that two-handed swords (either European or Japanese) were hard to make, and hard to temper properly, because they were often too long for the forge. If you've got a small forge, short blades are much easier to make.
Ditto with complex shapes and tempering. Something with complicated curves and cutouts is going to heat unevenly, and it's going to be hard to temper evenly. I would expect perhaps spot hardening (as on a kukri edge) at best.
One problem we haven't discussed is the issue of history. Most of the African blades we see are post-colonial in origin, and most (not all!) were not produced for war. Here's an analogy. Imagine that the only European swords you saw were produced around 1900. How would you judge European sword culture? Probably, you'd figure that swords were minor and ceremonial weapons, as all the blades you could find were badly made (compared to, say, a 14th century sword) and poorly used. Because Africa doesn't have a great historical record, it's somewhat hard to judge how good African swords were or could be. All we see are the modern ones.
Just a thought,
F
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hmm first to the anvil.. i disagree.
look for exsample at the size and complexed awkward shapes these african weapons come in,, they were using a crude anvil to make these, these shapes are much much harder to form that a european or japanese blade shape which is very simple by comparison, apsecialy the japanese blade.
a good exsample of good tempering is blades made fomr semi nomadic groups in borneo..
thes epeople use very crud tools but the treatment and finish of their wepaons is very impressive for teh tools they used,, when you look at old weapons of their from 18th and 19th centuary which were collected they are very well hardened and made.. but they had much less resources and no more complex tools that in africa,
just good technique,
african blades are hard to make, compared to a simple stirght blade.
and would take alot of work to produce,
the poor heat treatment and hardening is comon just the same in simple tools and knvies as in complexed tools and knives , it is not the shape,
although no doubt it would be worse in more complexed wepaons,
id say you can find many many african blades from the 19th centuary and quite alot from the 18th centuary and the styles are similar as is the quality.
i thin ingeneral most swords were not used for combat,,
but they ust have used some as there is accounts of them doing so ,
a sword made around 1900 for military use is a cheaply made functional item..
... its use is instantly apparent .. and it is designed for a function,
the afircan swords ive seen ive never been able to see any use for any of them,
the masi knives yes, they are a multi tool basucaly in the style of their spears.
the swords of ethopia yes and many appear to be use and had a specific technique to use them,
but the congo area of affica,, the "african" africa,
swords just, seemed to be...... mostly decorative,, or....... made more for a shape that for a use,
even the small galdius type swords they have no guard and no pommel cap and the handle is just a hunk of green wood pushed into the hand and peen over, mostly the handles are broken or split,
if these were being used so often then i would exspect them to use metal in the guard and pommel, and even atlease finish the wood well and maybe use a better wood,
it is interesting no doubt the swords held some cultural importance for rank and power, but how important if at all were they in combat,
the mosy afirican spears and clubs although routhly made are rather fucntional items that are made for a task that is apparent when you see them
the same goes for bows,
but when it comes to swords,,
"klingonish" comes to mind :P
however ,, i realy wounder how old these odd styles are, and was there some stlyes before that that were more simple and more functional??
also , im interested,.....
has ther ebeen any study as to when the sword came into africa and what styles came and what part did the arrive first.
as it realy is clear the concept of a "sword" is something people learn from one groups to the next. hence the different types in earily history spreading around..
Tim, thanks looks like an interesting book ,
however the individuial in the picture is mostlikeliy a moslem frim the north of this region near camaroon and nigeria ,e ct ect,, and not form the southern non arab influenced areas,, hence the horse and the armor. still even this is interesting, as i wounder why it never spread further south,
realy somebody must have a closer look at all this are africa seems to be rather under researched,
and it is interesting to have some information on these things,