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Originally Posted by ariel
Dear Alina,
First, I am glad you agree that your earlier statement re. Sword #37 was in fact incorrect: otherwise, you would be arguing with yourself.
Second, your rather cavalier dismissal of Yusel's conclusions and dating is ... just cavalier. After all, he spent years studying these swords, whereas your only experience with them is limited to looking at the photographs in his book. This may be permissible if the error is blatant, but the intricacies of dating is not something that can be solved by a cursory glance.
I agree with you that there are many difficulties in studying the origin of different weapons and the preponderance of evidence is sometimes the best we can do. However, there is no preponderance of evidence for your case (Persian origin of Kilijes); in fact, you have no evidence at all. Until and unless you can show us an example of a Persian Kilij pre-dating the Mameluke ( and later Ottoman) examples, this is just a proclamation, but not a proof.
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First of all, I never once made an incorrect statement about sword #37. Secondly, my dismissal of the dating, isn't a dismissal, it's a complication. It's not cavalier, it's based on other evidence I've seen. I do have evidence. I've shown you evidence. Artistic sources, while not the best sort of evidence are a sort. You have shown no evidence of mamluk kilics predating ottoman ones. I really don't see the point in arguing with you any further, as you dismiss all of the evidence I have shown you - much of it from the same book you yourself quoted. Then, you choose to twist my words around, to mean something completely different from what I said. I said that the preponderance of the evidence shows that the kilic began showing up in both Mamluk Egypt and the Ottoman Empire during the 15th century. I made no statement about Persia one way or the other. Yet, somehow, you make it out that I said the evidence shows the kilic came from Persia. I said nothing of the sort. I merely pointed to an alternative theory that is worthy of exploration. This is absolutely maddening, and I'm going to refrain on posting from the subject again.