Quote:
|
Originally Posted by fernando
As i said Jim, and you well quoted, i was not addressing you but Peter, to hint him not to widen the scope of our both conversation on the forte issue.
Regarding the purpose of these cartouches, and considering that the sources mentioned are to rely in that their contents is (always) impossible to decode, we would be one step away to realize that they are no more than an arabesque fantasy, and that their use is hardly one of indicating an (any) arsenal or any possible identification, but only object of a symbolic attitude.
In other words, what would be the purpose of a writing that you can't read ?
Mmm ... food for thought.
|
I know, and actually Ibrahiim in awareness that my faux pas on the term was moot in this conversation retrieved a well placed thread of earlier that was focused on sword nomenclature. Having that informative thread, which is now concurrent, will provide material so that anyone interested in the particulars can study them without troubling this thread.
I am not sure exactly what you are suggesting on the cartouches, but I was not implying that these are in any way an 'arabesque' feature . Those kinds of decorative 'attitudes' are reserved usually for European and colonial facsimiles of weapons made in an exotica sense.
The fact that these cartouches seem to be made by a 'stamp' which was produced for some sort of 'official' function would suggest placement on the blade to signify such. These kinds of functions I would think are of the kind carried out by arsenals, or whatever central place the receiving of trade goods/blades might be.
With these stamps, over time they became degenerated and caused slight variation in the characters within. Also poorly placed stamps would cause certain anomalies, factor in degeneration over time with aging in addition.
Though we know that, for example in the Sudanese situation during the Mahdiyya, the 'thuluth' emblazoned acid etched calligraphy was long thought to often be 'jibberish' that illiterate tribesmen would be impressed by. However recent studies have revealed that these are often couplets of verses and phrases, which are sometimes repeated in motif like character rather than properly scribed wording.
Very true, what purpose would illegible wording or characters have? Surely it depends and in situations there are coded and disguised inscriptions, acrostics and other arcane wordings designed for talismanic purposes. These are intended only for recognition by the initiated.
These cartouches I am sure were viably intended for recognition by the proper authorities, but probably, like the 'Passau wolf' and other well known markings probably gained a significance of quality of their own regardless if readable or not. In these cases, the placement in position on the blade would carry that significance as noted.
The fact that certain writers have noted these markings illegible or indecipherable does not mean they were intended that way, but that in their present state, they were not to the writer.