Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - English Dragoon sword with Possible Jacobite Connection

Jim McDougall · 29th September 2020, 05:39 AM

This dragoon hilt of English plain panel/saltire form is of early 18th c. (Neumann suggests 1680-1720) mounted with a blade which seems to correspond to the German type blades of this period to 1740s and perhaps longer. It is straight but many hanger blades have the distinct single fuller following the blade back usually about 15-16".

In Neumann (1973, fig. 64S and 65S) are two French hangers with straight blades noted as 172-36, and 1720-50. The blades are 22 3/4" and 23 1/4"
with each of them having fleur de lis marked at blade center.
France in this time did not have capability for larges scale blade production so bought them from Solingen.

The domed pommel with the arms of the basket slotted into it is characteristic of early 18th, as is the squared shield panel, also the capstan.

The Jacobite army assembling in 1745 were in France, as well as in locations in Great Britain of course, and it is known that at least 2000 cheap broadswords were sent from France among other arms. The broadsword term was used rather indiscriminantly , but it seems quite possible that this blade.......of 30" and marked with fluer de lis, may have been one of these supplied and mounted in this type hilt (obviously with more hand protection).

The Jacobite army were not just Highland, but also English, French and Irish and their causes were varied, not just with that of the Stuart monarchy.

On the field of Culloden in 1746, there were only 190 swords recovered, and among these were examples with blades marked with fleur de lis, as well of course as with the running wolf and Harvey. These blades were dismantled from the hilts to produce a terrible fence ( "Swords from the Battlefield at Culloden" , Mowbray) so they may have been from either side.
However, the fact that the Jacobites were quite reliant on French support renders the fluer de lis connection compelling for a Jacobite sword despite the English hilt.

Obviously the fluer de lis was used in other contexts as well, but the presence of centrally stamped blades on French hangers with German blades is also strongly considered.

29th September 2020, 05:39 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	English Dragoon sword with Possible Jacobite Connection This dragoon hilt of English plain panel/saltire form is of early 18th c. (Neumann suggests 1680-1720) mounted with a blade which seems to correspond to the German type blades of this period to 1740s and perhaps longer. It is straight but many hanger blades have the distinct single fuller following the blade back usually about 15-16". In Neumann (1973, fig. 64S and 65S) are two French hangers with straight blades noted as 172-36, and 1720-50. The blades are 22 3/4" and 23 1/4" with each of them having fleur de lis marked at blade center. France in this time did not have capability for larges scale blade production so bought them from Solingen. The domed pommel with the arms of the basket slotted into it is characteristic of early 18th, as is the squared shield panel, also the capstan. The Jacobite army assembling in 1745 were in France, as well as in locations in Great Britain of course, and it is known that at least 2000 cheap broadswords were sent from France among other arms. The broadsword term was used rather indiscriminantly , but it seems quite possible that this blade.......of 30" and marked with fluer de lis, may have been one of these supplied and mounted in this type hilt (obviously with more hand protection). The Jacobite army were not just Highland, but also English, French and Irish and their causes were varied, not just with that of the Stuart monarchy. On the field of Culloden in 1746, there were only 190 swords recovered, and among these were examples with blades marked with fleur de lis, as well of course as with the running wolf and Harvey. These blades were dismantled from the hilts to produce a terrible fence ( "Swords from the Battlefield at Culloden" , Mowbray) so they may have been from either side. However, the fact that the Jacobites were quite reliant on French support renders the fluer de lis connection compelling for a Jacobite sword despite the English hilt. Obviously the fluer de lis was used in other contexts as well, but the presence of centrally stamped blades on French hangers with German blades is also strongly considered. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 29th September 2020 at 06:21 AM.