Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Would like to know your opinion about this carita blade

A. G. Maisey · 5th November 2011, 05:36 AM

I can't explain any of this, Jimmy, but when I see "carita" used as a name for a distinctly Malay form of keris it suggests to me that keris (in general) came into the Malay world during the period that Old Javanese was used in Jawa. This then becomes an endorsement of the period for spread of the keris through S. E. Asia.

Why?

Because "carita" is an Old Javanese word that means, a deed, or an action, or an experience ( perbuatan, tindakan, pengalaman) , and this understanding also assists with an understanding of the original naming of the carita form in Jawa, as to my mind, the Old Javanese meaning of "carita" does make a more understandable name for a keris form than does the Modern Javanese meaning of "carita" :- a story about something. By looking at the original meaning, which comes from the Sanscrit, we can understand how the word meaning a deed, or action, or experience became the word for a story about this deed, or action or experience.

I tend not to think about the keris in a way that would be easily understood by any keris collector, be that collector Javanese or from somewhere else. I tend to look for origins, rather than classifications. I tend not to seek a name for some particular form or pattern, but to question why the name. If I look at a pamor I am usually not much interested in the name, rather I ask how it was made.

So, in the Javanese keris lexicon we have all these different forms of carita keris, and they're all waved. In the Malay keris lexicon we have carita keris too, and they're straight. To me, this is not anything to cause wonder. As I said in my prior post:- sometimes the sign post gets twisted. Doesn't matter much, the fact of the difference can perhaps tell us as much as if there were to be agreement. To my way of thinking, the important thing is to think about these things and ask why --- and it seems that that is what you are doing Jimmy:- asking the question "why?"

Looking at the list of carita dhapurs, I feel an interesting exercise would be to analyse all these names in terms of Old Javanese and Modern Javanese. Hours of fun for somebody.

5th November 2011, 05:36 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,700	I can't explain any of this, Jimmy, but when I see "carita" used as a name for a distinctly Malay form of keris it suggests to me that keris (in general) came into the Malay world during the period that Old Javanese was used in Jawa. This then becomes an endorsement of the period for spread of the keris through S. E. Asia. Why? Because "carita" is an Old Javanese word that means, a deed, or an action, or an experience ( perbuatan, tindakan, pengalaman) , and this understanding also assists with an understanding of the original naming of the carita form in Jawa, as to my mind, the Old Javanese meaning of "carita" does make a more understandable name for a keris form than does the Modern Javanese meaning of "carita" :- a story about something. By looking at the original meaning, which comes from the Sanscrit, we can understand how the word meaning a deed, or action, or experience became the word for a story about this deed, or action or experience. I tend not to think about the keris in a way that would be easily understood by any keris collector, be that collector Javanese or from somewhere else. I tend to look for origins, rather than classifications. I tend not to seek a name for some particular form or pattern, but to question why the name. If I look at a pamor I am usually not much interested in the name, rather I ask how it was made. So, in the Javanese keris lexicon we have all these different forms of carita keris, and they're all waved. In the Malay keris lexicon we have carita keris too, and they're straight. To me, this is not anything to cause wonder. As I said in my prior post:- sometimes the sign post gets twisted. Doesn't matter much, the fact of the difference can perhaps tell us as much as if there were to be agreement. To my way of thinking, the important thing is to think about these things and ask why --- and it seems that that is what you are doing Jimmy:- asking the question "why?" Looking at the list of carita dhapurs, I feel an interesting exercise would be to analyse all these names in terms of Old Javanese and Modern Javanese. Hours of fun for somebody.