Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Oliver Pinchot · 10th December 2014, 04:56 PM

In order to discuss these seriously, Kubur, better pics are called for. It would be interesting to see additional legitimate forms of Moroccan firearm emerge, however as it stands, none of these inspire particular confidence as to age or "fireability" except the last one in your earlier post, which is not only authentic but quite early-- it retains the original form of the English and Scottish pistols on which it was based, and is certainly datable before 1800.

Authenticity is contextual; one has to take the cultures which produced them and their intended purpose into consideration. For example, as you mentioned, if pistols of this form were made as props to be worn at traditional celebrations, then they may be "authentic" accoutrements, even though they were never intended to fire... and so on. I saw a vast number of these with circular butts in Moroccan souks, as I'm sure other forum members have. Are you able to examine any of them in hand? As for the last piece you pictured, yes, it's clearly contemporary. But that doesn't necessarily legitimize the others. Remember that there have been trinkets for as long as there were travelers to buy them. And that is a very long time. The example you show with a miquelet looks like a reasonable copy of a Spanish pistol, and the one following that evokes Belgian military pistols, but again, it's hard to tell much about their age from the pics. Then there is the question of what constitutes a form, and what is just a local copy.

What defines a tourist item also hinges on perspective: If you and I buy a well made and embellished contemporary dagger from a stall in the Meknes souk while a Berber next to us buys a similar one to wear to a wedding, is it a tourist piece because we bought one, or authentic because the Berber did? Too many factors play into the question, I prefer a simpler approach: Is the object intended to be used as a weapon, and how old is it?

10th December 2014, 04:56 PM	#7
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 456	In order to discuss these seriously, Kubur, better pics are called for. It would be interesting to see additional legitimate forms of Moroccan firearm emerge, however as it stands, none of these inspire particular confidence as to age or "fireability" except the last one in your earlier post, which is not only authentic but quite early-- it retains the original form of the English and Scottish pistols on which it was based, and is certainly datable before 1800. Authenticity is contextual; one has to take the cultures which produced them and their intended purpose into consideration. For example, as you mentioned, if pistols of this form were made as props to be worn at traditional celebrations, then they may be "authentic" accoutrements, even though they were never intended to fire... and so on. I saw a vast number of these with circular butts in Moroccan souks, as I'm sure other forum members have. Are you able to examine any of them in hand? As for the last piece you pictured, yes, it's clearly contemporary. But that doesn't necessarily legitimize the others. Remember that there have been trinkets for as long as there were travelers to buy them. And that is a very long time. The example you show with a miquelet looks like a reasonable copy of a Spanish pistol, and the one following that evokes Belgian military pistols, but again, it's hard to tell much about their age from the pics. Then there is the question of what constitutes a form, and what is just a local copy. What defines a tourist item also hinges on perspective: If you and I buy a well made and embellished contemporary dagger from a stall in the Meknes souk while a Berber next to us buys a similar one to wear to a wedding, is it a tourist piece because we bought one, or authentic because the Berber did? Too many factors play into the question, I prefer a simpler approach: Is the object intended to be used as a weapon, and how old is it? Last edited by Oliver Pinchot; 10th December 2014 at 07:34 PM.