Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

ariel · 30th June 2018, 02:18 AM

In Turkey these "estocs" are called "meç" or "Meç -Kiliç": pronounced as mech ( "ch" as in cheese).

The word "mech" or "mach" comes from slavic group of languages, and means just " sword".

One possibility is that the Ottomans got this weapon from the Balkans ( Serbia?) and preserved the original sounding.

However, similar thrusting Mamluk examples are present in Askeri Muze ( Yucel, plates 61-63) and are dated to 15th century.

Here is yet another conundrum: at that time Mamluk Sultanate in Egypt was ruled by Burji dynasty, that was Circassian in origin. Circassians and Crimean Tatars, with whom the former were very close, had very long sabers with bayonet points designed specifically for thrusting. Was the idea of a purely thrusting sword in Mamluk( and later, Ottoman) military imported from the Northern shore of Black Sea, the main source of acquiring slave soldiers?

Marsigli in his accounts of the Ottoman Empire, mentioned this " meç", but did not know how to transliterate sound "ch". So, he used "gg". Russian researcher Astvatsaturyan, an author of their famous book "Turkish weapons", not knowing any foreign languages, rendered its sounding in a typical Russian fashion as "мегг" ( pronounced as "meg" with hard "g" at the end).
That is how in Russian weapon history books appeared yet another genuine Ottoman weapon : "meg".

Another story from the " karud" series:-)

30th June 2018, 02:18 AM	#47
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	In Turkey these "estocs" are called "meç" or "Meç -Kiliç": pronounced as mech ( "ch" as in cheese). The word "mech" or "mach" comes from slavic group of languages, and means just " sword". One possibility is that the Ottomans got this weapon from the Balkans ( Serbia?) and preserved the original sounding. However, similar thrusting Mamluk examples are present in Askeri Muze ( Yucel, plates 61-63) and are dated to 15th century. Here is yet another conundrum: at that time Mamluk Sultanate in Egypt was ruled by Burji dynasty, that was Circassian in origin. Circassians and Crimean Tatars, with whom the former were very close, had very long sabers with bayonet points designed specifically for thrusting. Was the idea of a purely thrusting sword in Mamluk( and later, Ottoman) military imported from the Northern shore of Black Sea, the main source of acquiring slave soldiers? Marsigli in his accounts of the Ottoman Empire, mentioned this " meç", but did not know how to transliterate sound "ch". So, he used "gg". Russian researcher Astvatsaturyan, an author of their famous book "Turkish weapons", not knowing any foreign languages, rendered its sounding in a typical Russian fashion as "мегг" ( pronounced as "meg" with hard "g" at the end). That is how in Russian weapon history books appeared yet another genuine Ottoman weapon : "meg". Another story from the " karud" series:-)