Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Keris Tindih -- The Neutralizer

A. G. Maisey · 22nd May 2007, 12:14 AM

Thank you for your detailed response, Raden.

I cannot claim the breadth of experience that you have, I am not a native speaker of Javanese, and in fact I speak Javanese very badly, but I do have a very wide Javanese vocabulary, and can usually follow a Javanese conversation.Additionally, I have some small understanding of Old Javanese.

I have spent time in Jawa every year since around 1966---did miss a couple of years around 1968-1970, and 1980-1981. During the last 25 years my residence has been in Palur, about 8KM or so out of Solo.I returned to Australia from Solo a couple of weeks ago.

The "other native speaker" to whom I referred was my wife or more than 30 years. Since she is currently in Solo---she went back a week or so ago on family business--- I had to ring her to ask her, and when I rang, she gave her answer, but then threw my question to her niece and nephew, who proceeded to give a ten minute lecture on the ways in which these words can be used. If I had not cut the phone call short that lecture would have gone on for half an hour.
Actually, my court of final appeal on any Javanese meanings is my son-in-law, who comes from a slightly elevated family, and whom, by all accounts, uses Javanese to perfection--- a very rare trait at the present time, when all the literary people are telling us that Javanese is dying and that within a generation the only people who will be able to use the language will be professors in universities.

During the time I have spent in Jawa, I have not had any contact with professors, or kyais(when acting in this persona). I have had very considerable contact with people who are members of the keris trade, collectors, ordinary working people, both rural and urban,public servants, and the occasional dukun.
Although I have travelled through probably all of the areas you mention, 98% of my time has been spent in Solo, with the remnant 2% spent in East Jawa around Malang - Kediri.

I would guess that the way in which you use the words under discussion is the product of association with native speakers from a wider geographical area, and social strata that enters a slightly more spiritual zone than that to which I am accustomed.

What I do know is this---and I have my notebooks to ensure that my memory was not decieving me---Empu Suparman Supowijaya used either paku or pasak in conversations with me when discussing this matter of pins inserted into keris blades.It could be argued that this occurred because our conversations were in Indonesian, however, he invariably used Javanese words for all things to do with the keris, even though we were speaking Indonesian.

Again I thank you for adding to my knowledge. The variation in the Javanese language is a thing of endless fascination for me.

22nd May 2007, 12:14 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,714	Thank you for your detailed response, Raden. I cannot claim the breadth of experience that you have, I am not a native speaker of Javanese, and in fact I speak Javanese very badly, but I do have a very wide Javanese vocabulary, and can usually follow a Javanese conversation.Additionally, I have some small understanding of Old Javanese. I have spent time in Jawa every year since around 1966---did miss a couple of years around 1968-1970, and 1980-1981. During the last 25 years my residence has been in Palur, about 8KM or so out of Solo.I returned to Australia from Solo a couple of weeks ago. The "other native speaker" to whom I referred was my wife or more than 30 years. Since she is currently in Solo---she went back a week or so ago on family business--- I had to ring her to ask her, and when I rang, she gave her answer, but then threw my question to her niece and nephew, who proceeded to give a ten minute lecture on the ways in which these words can be used. If I had not cut the phone call short that lecture would have gone on for half an hour. Actually, my court of final appeal on any Javanese meanings is my son-in-law, who comes from a slightly elevated family, and whom, by all accounts, uses Javanese to perfection--- a very rare trait at the present time, when all the literary people are telling us that Javanese is dying and that within a generation the only people who will be able to use the language will be professors in universities. During the time I have spent in Jawa, I have not had any contact with professors, or kyais(when acting in this persona). I have had very considerable contact with people who are members of the keris trade, collectors, ordinary working people, both rural and urban,public servants, and the occasional dukun. Although I have travelled through probably all of the areas you mention, 98% of my time has been spent in Solo, with the remnant 2% spent in East Jawa around Malang - Kediri. I would guess that the way in which you use the words under discussion is the product of association with native speakers from a wider geographical area, and social strata that enters a slightly more spiritual zone than that to which I am accustomed. What I do know is this---and I have my notebooks to ensure that my memory was not decieving me---Empu Suparman Supowijaya used either paku or pasak in conversations with me when discussing this matter of pins inserted into keris blades.It could be argued that this occurred because our conversations were in Indonesian, however, he invariably used Javanese words for all things to do with the keris, even though we were speaking Indonesian. Again I thank you for adding to my knowledge. The variation in the Javanese language is a thing of endless fascination for me.