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Old 19th September 2008, 02:12 PM   #49
A. G. Maisey
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Join Date: May 2006
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Van Dapperen, Michael?

Do you mean Van Der Hoop, or is Van Dapperen a separate reference?

On the "dittos", yes, I think you're right. I just went back and had another look at that text. Makes a difference if one wears glasses when reading it.

But still, Ceribon or Jawa, or Middle Jawa, I'm not really too fussed about. What I find interesting is this distinctly Jawa demam pattern being associated with Jawa. I've never seen anything anywhere that would suggest that this pattern is a Jawa pattern, but Pak Gonjo seemed pretty sure of himself, so he must have some solid evidence somewhere, and publication in this textbook intended for use in Indonesian educational institutions seems to put it beyond doubt.

Yes, you can't see the head shape in the Van Der Hoop illustration, and this still leaves room for doubt.

However, at this moment I am still puzzling over exactly how and where this Jawa demam form fits into the range of Jawa hilts of which we are certain.
I don't think I want to get into discussion of hand positions at this point, because from my perspective we are still trying to find some sort of certainty on the overall form. If we can achieve that, then maybe we can consider the detail.In any case, you can bet on it that when it was carved, it was carved in conformity with a specific pattern, and the carver himself probably didn't have the vaguest idea of what he was carving:- we see a mudra; the carver saw something that he'd been taught to carve.
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