Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Philip · 30th December 2018, 05:09 PM

Some points to consider:
1. Not all of the Chinese-style paired swords/sabers/daggers fit into scabbards with separate compartments. Some double Cantonese fighting knives slip side-by-side into a single-compartment sheath made of thick pig skin. Vietnamese double swords (song kiem) generally have no divider between blades in the scabbard.

2. Nothing about the blade shape of this pair is suggestive of Chinese design. They remind me of someone's idea of plug bayonet blades, reconfigured slightly for this particular application.

3. Twin weapons with half-hilts carried in one scabbard are not a Chinese, or an East Asian monopoly. They had a limited popularity in Italy as well during the 16th - early 17 century where certain fencing schools utilized a technique using two swords of equal length. The weapon was called a spada doppia, or spada da lato gemelle. Examples are published in the books Armi e Armature Lombarde (fig 264) and in Armi Bianche Italiane (figs. 323-26 and 555-556)

4. This being said, paired blades in various guises are occasionally encountered in SE Asian cultures which have been exposed to more or less of Chinese influences over the centuries. Vietnam is mentioned above. I have also seen twin Javanese kerises with half-hilts in one scabbard, and various other blades of local style from Siam and elsewhere in the region, but configured according to the Chinese-style twin hilt concept.

The resemblance of these blades to a European shape (plug bayonet) leads me to consider the possibility that these may have SE Asian origin since the region was the crossroads of European and northern Asian trade and colonial activities since the days of the Ming voyages and Portuguese discoveries. The fact that the fittings on this set of daggers appear to be of iron points to a somewhat earlier date than the 19th-20th cent. period of most ethnographic arms from the region -- during that time frame, most hilt weapons were fitted up in non-ferrous metals, as was true for the vast majority of Chinese daggers and fighting knives of the period as well.

This assessment, of course is something I regard as tentative, and based on images only, not having the pieces in hand.

30th December 2018, 05:09 PM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Some points to consider: 1. Not all of the Chinese-style paired swords/sabers/daggers fit into scabbards with separate compartments. Some double Cantonese fighting knives slip side-by-side into a single-compartment sheath made of thick pig skin. Vietnamese double swords (song kiem) generally have no divider between blades in the scabbard. 2. Nothing about the blade shape of this pair is suggestive of Chinese design. They remind me of someone's idea of plug bayonet blades, reconfigured slightly for this particular application. 3. Twin weapons with half-hilts carried in one scabbard are not a Chinese, or an East Asian monopoly. They had a limited popularity in Italy as well during the 16th - early 17 century where certain fencing schools utilized a technique using two swords of equal length. The weapon was called a spada doppia, or spada da lato gemelle. Examples are published in the books Armi e Armature Lombarde (fig 264) and in Armi Bianche Italiane (figs. 323-26 and 555-556) 4. This being said, paired blades in various guises are occasionally encountered in SE Asian cultures which have been exposed to more or less of Chinese influences over the centuries. Vietnam is mentioned above. I have also seen twin Javanese kerises with half-hilts in one scabbard, and various other blades of local style from Siam and elsewhere in the region, but configured according to the Chinese-style twin hilt concept. The resemblance of these blades to a European shape (plug bayonet) leads me to consider the possibility that these may have SE Asian origin since the region was the crossroads of European and northern Asian trade and colonial activities since the days of the Ming voyages and Portuguese discoveries. The fact that the fittings on this set of daggers appear to be of iron points to a somewhat earlier date than the 19th-20th cent. period of most ethnographic arms from the region -- during that time frame, most hilt weapons were fitted up in non-ferrous metals, as was true for the vast majority of Chinese daggers and fighting knives of the period as well. This assessment, of course is something I regard as tentative, and based on images only, not having the pieces in hand.