Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Identification of a royal (family) with a Kris

A. G. Maisey · 22nd October 2009, 11:10 AM

I've been hoping that you would join this discussion, Pak Boedhi. I was certain you would be able to fill the gaps.

Regarding the question of seniority in respect of Surakarta and Jogjakarta.
During most of the time I have been visiting Jawa, I have had my house in Solo. My teachers have been Abdi Dalem of the Karaton Surakarta; my housekeeper claims a backdoor relationship to PB X; the people I usually associate with are connected in some way or another with the karaton, either directly, or indirectly. What I have written about seniority is what I have learned from the people I live with.We all form our opinions upon our experience. My experience comes from one direction, your experience comes from another. Both points of view are correct , depending upon where one is standing.

Divorcing myself from that which has been fed to me, and adopting a purely objective and logical point of view.
Surakarta was there first.
In the absence of family disagreements and Dutch manipulation, the continuation of the House of Mataram would have shown a single line, that line stretching back in time through Surakarta, Kartosuro, all the way back to Majapahit --- although admittedly through a female inheritance.
Logically, there can be no argument that the oldest, and thus senior division of the House of Mataram is the Surakarta division.

However, there is room in this world for all of us to adopt the belief with which we are most comfortable.

In respect of the form of archaic keris dress, this can be seen in monumental carvings at Panataran, and from a later period at Sukuh. In both cases the forms are unlike both the Surakarta form and the Jogjakarta form. In fact, there is some evidence that would suggest that the early form --- ie circa Majapahit --- of the keris scabbard was quite similar to the form that we know today as the Bugis form. I feel that if we were able to research this question thoroughly, we might find that both Jogjakarta and Surakarta went through a period of re-invention following the division.

I thank you most sincerely, Pak Boedhi, for providing the information that only a person with your background could provide.

22nd October 2009, 11:10 AM	#18
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,704	I've been hoping that you would join this discussion, Pak Boedhi. I was certain you would be able to fill the gaps. Regarding the question of seniority in respect of Surakarta and Jogjakarta. During most of the time I have been visiting Jawa, I have had my house in Solo. My teachers have been Abdi Dalem of the Karaton Surakarta; my housekeeper claims a backdoor relationship to PB X; the people I usually associate with are connected in some way or another with the karaton, either directly, or indirectly. What I have written about seniority is what I have learned from the people I live with.We all form our opinions upon our experience. My experience comes from one direction, your experience comes from another. Both points of view are correct , depending upon where one is standing. Divorcing myself from that which has been fed to me, and adopting a purely objective and logical point of view. Surakarta was there first. In the absence of family disagreements and Dutch manipulation, the continuation of the House of Mataram would have shown a single line, that line stretching back in time through Surakarta, Kartosuro, all the way back to Majapahit --- although admittedly through a female inheritance. Logically, there can be no argument that the oldest, and thus senior division of the House of Mataram is the Surakarta division. However, there is room in this world for all of us to adopt the belief with which we are most comfortable. In respect of the form of archaic keris dress, this can be seen in monumental carvings at Panataran, and from a later period at Sukuh. In both cases the forms are unlike both the Surakarta form and the Jogjakarta form. In fact, there is some evidence that would suggest that the early form --- ie circa Majapahit --- of the keris scabbard was quite similar to the form that we know today as the Bugis form. I feel that if we were able to research this question thoroughly, we might find that both Jogjakarta and Surakarta went through a period of re-invention following the division. I thank you most sincerely, Pak Boedhi, for providing the information that only a person with your background could provide.