Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

David · 14th March 2017, 03:19 PM

I was not at all arguing that the Malay Sundang does not have its origins in the Philippines as a form, only that once it migrated back to the Malay people that local smiths also manufactured a certain amount of blades on what we recognize as Malay Sundangs.
I know that Charles has posted a number of Malay Sundangs that carried blades we all seemed to agree at the time were not of Moro origin and these sundangs were most certainly not of a souvenir nature. Here is a link to one such discussion.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14292
I am well aware of the generic nature of the word "sundang" and it's many uses throughout SEA. Examples like this are what makes the name game so ridiculous at times. However, i can state fairly confidently the the "so-called" Malay Sundang is what Malay collectors call their particular version of the Moro Kris on their own turf. As a Western collector i am not really willing to step in and explain to the Malay people that it is simply a "so-called" name, nor am i about to cite the writings of any number of Europeans to explain to them why that name is some how inappropriate for their usage. It simply is the name that is used by local collectors in Indonesia and the Malay Peninsula AFAIK.
Again, i do believe that a great number of these Malay examples are indeed re-dressed Moro blades, however, as this form became more accepted amongst the Malay it seems only logical that they would begin to manufacture a few blades of their own in this form. I don't know that these non-Moro blades were forged on the Peninsula or Borneo, or some other place in Indonesia, but it seems clear that they were not made by Moros in the Morolands. Please keep in mind that the Malay people are not restricted just to Malaysia and the Peninsula. When we use the word Malay we refer to Malay Peninsula, eastern Sumatra and coastal Borneo, as well as the smaller islands which lie between these locations — areas that are collectively known as the Malay world. These locations today are part of the modern nations of Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Brunei, and southern Thailand.

14th March 2017, 03:19 PM	#16
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,029	I was not at all arguing that the Malay Sundang does not have its origins in the Philippines as a form, only that once it migrated back to the Malay people that local smiths also manufactured a certain amount of blades on what we recognize as Malay Sundangs. I know that Charles has posted a number of Malay Sundangs that carried blades we all seemed to agree at the time were not of Moro origin and these sundangs were most certainly not of a souvenir nature. Here is a link to one such discussion. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14292 I am well aware of the generic nature of the word "sundang" and it's many uses throughout SEA. Examples like this are what makes the name game so ridiculous at times. However, i can state fairly confidently the the "so-called" Malay Sundang is what Malay collectors call their particular version of the Moro Kris on their own turf. As a Western collector i am not really willing to step in and explain to the Malay people that it is simply a "so-called" name, nor am i about to cite the writings of any number of Europeans to explain to them why that name is some how inappropriate for their usage. It simply is the name that is used by local collectors in Indonesia and the Malay Peninsula AFAIK. Again, i do believe that a great number of these Malay examples are indeed re-dressed Moro blades, however, as this form became more accepted amongst the Malay it seems only logical that they would begin to manufacture a few blades of their own in this form. I don't know that these non-Moro blades were forged on the Peninsula or Borneo, or some other place in Indonesia, but it seems clear that they were not made by Moros in the Morolands. Please keep in mind that the Malay people are not restricted just to Malaysia and the Peninsula. When we use the word Malay we refer to Malay Peninsula, eastern Sumatra and coastal Borneo, as well as the smaller islands which lie between these locations — areas that are collectively known as the Malay world. These locations today are part of the modern nations of Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Brunei, and southern Thailand. Last edited by David; 14th March 2017 at 04:22 PM.