Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

fernando · 18th October 2017, 07:18 PM

Old 24th December 2007, 09:05 PM

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

Its great to see more outstanding input keeping our thread going!
Dom, thank you so much for sharing the excerpts out of Lebedynsky's great book, and excellent resource that never gets the recognition it deserves. What a perfect Christmas gift .

Jeff, Im glad you're back, and I know this time of year is pretty hectic. As always, you've done an excellent job of compiling data and keeping perspective on the ongoing observations, especially good information on those Latin worded religious invocations.
Interesting on the clearly later added inscription on the Polish sabre, which seem to have been crudely added in imitation of much earlier markings that recall the 'fringia' mark and as you note, numeric applications of dots.
Something that comes to mind with the dots are arrangements of dots relating to religious invocation on the 'paternoster' blades. Need to add more on these and the varying dot arrangements.

Fernando, as always you are on course with your perspectives on the Latin invocations, and I agree that there were corrupted applications often, and that in the ever widening range of copying popular phrases and symbols, much of the original symbolism is lost.

I often wonder just how ancient is this use of marks, invocation and symbolism on weapons. While most of our discussion goes back to the Medeival period, we know that Viking swords carried invocations and superstitious symbolism. I believe that in those swords, typically the Frankish made weapons had makers names in the hilt.

Lets look into the dot arrangements on the 'paternosters' and the Viking markings more.

Thanks very much guys,
All the best, and a very Merry Christmas to all!!!!
Jim
.

18th October 2017, 07:18 PM	#116
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,639	Old 24th December 2007, 09:05 PM Posted by: Jim McDougall EAA Research Consultant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Its great to see more outstanding input keeping our thread going! Dom, thank you so much for sharing the excerpts out of Lebedynsky's great book, and excellent resource that never gets the recognition it deserves. What a perfect Christmas gift . Jeff, Im glad you're back, and I know this time of year is pretty hectic. As always, you've done an excellent job of compiling data and keeping perspective on the ongoing observations, especially good information on those Latin worded religious invocations. Interesting on the clearly later added inscription on the Polish sabre, which seem to have been crudely added in imitation of much earlier markings that recall the 'fringia' mark and as you note, numeric applications of dots. Something that comes to mind with the dots are arrangements of dots relating to religious invocation on the 'paternoster' blades. Need to add more on these and the varying dot arrangements. Fernando, as always you are on course with your perspectives on the Latin invocations, and I agree that there were corrupted applications often, and that in the ever widening range of copying popular phrases and symbols, much of the original symbolism is lost. I often wonder just how ancient is this use of marks, invocation and symbolism on weapons. While most of our discussion goes back to the Medeival period, we know that Viking swords carried invocations and superstitious symbolism. I believe that in those swords, typically the Frankish made weapons had makers names in the hilt. Lets look into the dot arrangements on the 'paternosters' and the Viking markings more. Thanks very much guys, All the best, and a very Merry Christmas to all!!!! Jim . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 11:46 AM.