Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 27th August 2005, 05:21 AM

Hi Jens,
I agree the measurement value data seems to apply very well to some of the observations and it is good to have established that material for future reference in researching these swords.The question on the virtually characteristic 'ricasso' feature on tulwars certainly remains inconclusive and debated.
Best regards,
Jim

The issue concerning 'small hands' and the size of the grips on many tulwar hilts is discussed by E.Jaiwent Paul in "By My Sword and Shield" (p.76) where he notes that physical size of individuals in earlier times was indeed typically smaller. However, he also offers the following observation, "...many swordsmiths say that a small hilt which is a tight fit for the hand gives rise to a sense of 'josh', a term difficult to render in English, but which may be translated as a combination of aggression, fervour and recklessness".
I'm not sure I agree with this idea, but it seems worthy of note and I cant help but think this concept may align with that of 'one wearing ones shorts too tight'!

Returning to the 'ricasso' dilemma, I think the basic reference on this stems from "The Indian Sword" by Rawson, which observes;
"...there is one obvious point of difference between Persian and Indian blades which may be mentioned. No Persian blade is known to have a feature which may be called the Indian Ricasso. This is a short flattened section at the root of the edge, which is shouldered into the bevel of the edge. The reason for its existence may have been to safeguard the index finger, which art shows to have been sometimes hooked round the front quillon of the hilt in India".
(the footnote cites a personal communication from a B.W.Robinson of the metalwork dept. at the Victoria & Albert Museum as the source for this data).
It is interesting to note that Rawson specifically states that 'art' does show this practice being used, unfortunately no reference is given as to what 'art' is being cited.

This material from Rawson seems to have firmly placed this explanation for this virtually consistant feature of Indian tulwar blades in the lore of Indian arms. In the later work of G.N. Pant, "Indian Arms & Armour" , Dr.Pant does take exception to a number of statements and material in the work of both Rawson and the seminal work by Egerton, but surprisingly seems to concur with Rawsons notes on the 'ricasso'. Pant observes that the [Indian] ricasso is "...a square shaped space, generally of 2" is left blunt and unsharpened just below the tang, and is called ricasso (locally 'khajana'). This saves the fingers from being cut as some of them slip out of the quillons at the time of wielding. This feature is not found on the shamshirs but is invariably found on the tulwars". (p.31).
Here, once again, no specific reference is given to support these observations.

It would appear that Rawson was confident in the data concerning the hooked finger on the blade that he received from Mr. Robinson. As earlier posted, the article by Anthony North, also formerly of the Victoria & Albert, made note of the finger hooking practice in Italian and Spanish swordsmanship. Perhaps that established practice, noted as represented in European artwork, was recalled in evaluating the Indian swords...but Rawsons note as worded suggests the practice shown is in Indian artwork...but which...where?

It is noted in the North/Buttin material that with the finger hooking practice used in Italy and Spain, it was important to have finger guards to protect the finger. The drooping quillon is seen on many sword forms in these swords to provide such protection. I think here it is important to note the 'palouar', the Afghan version of the tulwar, which has such drooping quillons presumably to that end......and carries a pronounced ricasso.

Although I agree the idea of placing the index finger precariously outside the protection of the guard seems an inherently bad idea, it seems important to present the observations of established authorities on these swords and thier use, without really issuing conclusive statements. This material is presented simply as evidence that may be helpful in further discussion.

27th August 2005, 05:21 AM	#23
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,760	Hi Jens, I agree the measurement value data seems to apply very well to some of the observations and it is good to have established that material for future reference in researching these swords.The question on the virtually characteristic 'ricasso' feature on tulwars certainly remains inconclusive and debated. Best regards, Jim The issue concerning 'small hands' and the size of the grips on many tulwar hilts is discussed by E.Jaiwent Paul in "By My Sword and Shield" (p.76) where he notes that physical size of individuals in earlier times was indeed typically smaller. However, he also offers the following observation, "...many swordsmiths say that a small hilt which is a tight fit for the hand gives rise to a sense of 'josh', a term difficult to render in English, but which may be translated as a combination of aggression, fervour and recklessness". I'm not sure I agree with this idea, but it seems worthy of note and I cant help but think this concept may align with that of 'one wearing ones shorts too tight'! Returning to the 'ricasso' dilemma, I think the basic reference on this stems from "The Indian Sword" by Rawson, which observes; "...there is one obvious point of difference between Persian and Indian blades which may be mentioned. No Persian blade is known to have a feature which may be called the Indian Ricasso. This is a short flattened section at the root of the edge, which is shouldered into the bevel of the edge. The reason for its existence may have been to safeguard the index finger, which art shows to have been sometimes hooked round the front quillon of the hilt in India". (the footnote cites a personal communication from a B.W.Robinson of the metalwork dept. at the Victoria & Albert Museum as the source for this data). It is interesting to note that Rawson specifically states that 'art' does show this practice being used, unfortunately no reference is given as to what 'art' is being cited. This material from Rawson seems to have firmly placed this explanation for this virtually consistant feature of Indian tulwar blades in the lore of Indian arms. In the later work of G.N. Pant, "Indian Arms & Armour" , Dr.Pant does take exception to a number of statements and material in the work of both Rawson and the seminal work by Egerton, but surprisingly seems to concur with Rawsons notes on the 'ricasso'. Pant observes that the [Indian] ricasso is "...a square shaped space, generally of 2" is left blunt and unsharpened just below the tang, and is called ricasso (locally 'khajana'). This saves the fingers from being cut as some of them slip out of the quillons at the time of wielding. This feature is not found on the shamshirs but is invariably found on the tulwars". (p.31). Here, once again, no specific reference is given to support these observations. It would appear that Rawson was confident in the data concerning the hooked finger on the blade that he received from Mr. Robinson. As earlier posted, the article by Anthony North, also formerly of the Victoria & Albert, made note of the finger hooking practice in Italian and Spanish swordsmanship. Perhaps that established practice, noted as represented in European artwork, was recalled in evaluating the Indian swords...but Rawsons note as worded suggests the practice shown is in Indian artwork...but which...where? It is noted in the North/Buttin material that with the finger hooking practice used in Italy and Spain, it was important to have finger guards to protect the finger. The drooping quillon is seen on many sword forms in these swords to provide such protection. I think here it is important to note the 'palouar', the Afghan version of the tulwar, which has such drooping quillons presumably to that end......and carries a pronounced ricasso. Although I agree the idea of placing the index finger precariously outside the protection of the guard seems an inherently bad idea, it seems important to present the observations of established authorities on these swords and thier use, without really issuing conclusive statements. This material is presented simply as evidence that may be helpful in further discussion.