Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 19th July 2016, 03:33 AM

It occurred to me to consider the Turkic influence and to address the very pertinent questions earlier in this thread as to the major design fashion/highlight of the project sword at the throat illustrating how India absorbed both the Koftgari and Tunkou aspects but more importantly where its own source of such style is present. Bolstered blades are common to Indian style as are koftgari decorations at the throat. Chinese weapons were quite late in the 17th C...and of a reversed Tunkou style not common in Indian swords. The time scale of Turkic cross pollination of style seems to better fit the picture moreover Hindu and Buddhist decorative style seems to indicate a far earlier transition in Indian sword decoration. See the Tibetan form below. Common to Indian, Ottoman and Chinese hilt style are the birdheads or Parrot form hilts...Zoomorphic hilts developed as a consequence of artistic and cultural style thus pistol grip design cannot be attributed specific to either except that the timeline would indicate favouring the Ottoman influence going back to Turkic influence. The knuckle guard can be seen across India and neighboring regions including the Sri Lankan Kastane but also in mainline weapons such as Tulvar etc...On blade style it is noted that Indian Sosun Pata form derived from the Ottoman Yatagan.

Thus having compared the weapon at 1 and its derivatives I conclude that this weapon probably originated in Turkic fashion spreading through Ottoman style into Indian via the influence of the Yatagan as well as additions from Indian home grown design. Although interesting the Chinese influence appears too late in proceedings and has the added hurdle of a Tunkou reversed in design placement on Chinese swords...

To compare the way influence flowed from India to China and vice versa...see Thomas chens detail at http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/photo2.html where he notes Quote" Chinese and Islamic sabers, owing to both having a common ancestor (the Turko-Mongol saber), and also due to mutual cross-pollination and interaction, have several common features" Unquote.

19th July 2016, 03:33 AM	#18
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	It occurred to me to consider the Turkic influence and to address the very pertinent questions earlier in this thread as to the major design fashion/highlight of the project sword at the throat illustrating how India absorbed both the Koftgari and Tunkou aspects but more importantly where its own source of such style is present. Bolstered blades are common to Indian style as are koftgari decorations at the throat. Chinese weapons were quite late in the 17th C...and of a reversed Tunkou style not common in Indian swords. The time scale of Turkic cross pollination of style seems to better fit the picture moreover Hindu and Buddhist decorative style seems to indicate a far earlier transition in Indian sword decoration. See the Tibetan form below. Common to Indian, Ottoman and Chinese hilt style are the birdheads or Parrot form hilts...Zoomorphic hilts developed as a consequence of artistic and cultural style thus pistol grip design cannot be attributed specific to either except that the timeline would indicate favouring the Ottoman influence going back to Turkic influence. The knuckle guard can be seen across India and neighboring regions including the Sri Lankan Kastane but also in mainline weapons such as Tulvar etc...On blade style it is noted that Indian Sosun Pata form derived from the Ottoman Yatagan. Thus having compared the weapon at 1 and its derivatives I conclude that this weapon probably originated in Turkic fashion spreading through Ottoman style into Indian via the influence of the Yatagan as well as additions from Indian home grown design. Although interesting the Chinese influence appears too late in proceedings and has the added hurdle of a Tunkou reversed in design placement on Chinese swords... To compare the way influence flowed from India to China and vice versa...see Thomas chens detail at http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/photo2.html where he notes Quote" Chinese and Islamic sabers, owing to both having a common ancestor (the Turko-Mongol saber), and also due to mutual cross-pollination and interaction, have several common features" Unquote. Attached Images Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 19th July 2016 at 04:34 AM.