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Old 2nd June 2019, 07:05 PM   #7
Jim McDougall
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Location: Route 66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
A pertinent approach, i would say, Norman . Others with more knowledge will concur ... or not.


Very pertinent, and as Norman has already intimated, there is a possibility this may not be 17th c. as by character, it does appear. As he has a most discerning eye, and formidable knowledge himself, I suspect he is of course simply seeking other opinions.

While we await those with knowledge in this field, I took the liberty of continuing my research to see if I could establish what influences and elements might be present in what my limited view compels me to think this is a pastiche of earlier swords.

This may well fall into the nebulous area of 'transitional' rapiers, which indeed were well known in the late 16th to early 17th century period.
In this time a style of fencing evolved in Italy and Germany termed 'spadroon' (actually an 18th c. English term for it) in which the swords were lighter and many of the moves different.

It is well known that English gentry was highly influenced by Italian styles and fashions in the 18th, into the 19th, and neo-classicism was prevalent in many cases. These elements often filtered into Germany as noted.

Egerton Castle (op. cit. pp.242-43) notes that 'shearing swords' ,very light ,were often used in England for swords used in this type sword play.

In looking into this shape pommel, Norman ("The Rapier & Small Sword 1460-1820", 1980), these oblate shape pommels (typically with capstan rather than peened) seem to predominate on late 16th-early 17th examples of rapier, as well as some left hand daggers. These seem invariably ornate, rather than simple with chiseled lines as here.

The example of 'spadroon' sword (pictured below)is a modern reproduction but with a shell and obviously of loosely similar structure as this, and accordingly light blade.

With the discoid elements noted throughout the hilt elements, I found in old notes a German ('fighting sword' as described) of late 16th-early 17th) which has these type roundels, though pierced. I thought them pertinent and posted the picture below.

Getting to the inscriptions, which as I mentioned seem crisp, and uncharacteristic of the talismanic inscriptions based often on magical glyphs, symbols interspersed with key numbers which were popular in first half of 17th c. These were often contrived with what appear Glagolitic, and even runic alphabet characters or interpretations of them.
The running wolf is placed as often characteristic within the numbers, which seem in most cases variations of 4's and '1' s but others do exist.
The wolf however, seems to be placed facing the reverse of most examples I am aware of....this of course is nothing conclusive but worthy of note.
(see plate from Wagner, 1967, below).

The other figure nearer the ricasso resembles what may be intended as a 'anchor' but more in the fashion of a magical glyph as mentioned.

These are the factors which have suggested to me this may not be 17th c as seems to have been the appearance intent, but perhaps a well made sword for someone following the traditions and neo classicism trends of late 18th into 19th c. The elliptical blade is something I have seen on military training swords of the 19th c. but not of course with a block ricasso like this. That is a characteristic of rapier blades, which were not as far as I know, elliptical.

I hope any of these observations might be useful, for me it just an exercise in learning, and I look forward to the elucidation of those knowledgeable here.
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Last edited by Jim McDougall; 2nd June 2019 at 07:55 PM.
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