Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - A nimcha that was not.... :-)

Jim McDougall · 17th December 2012, 06:23 PM

Wow! Ariel,
I think you have hit on something here! at least it has revealed something to me that has been a mystery for well over thirty years! I once acquired what was listed as an 18th century Hungarian Hussars sabre from a well known and somewhat notorious dealer. It had no scabbard and a somewhat damaged pistol grip Ottoman style with narrow crossguard quillons. The blade was virtually like this one, but most importantly there were engraved banner type devices with words like those described in the 'Transylvanian knot'....something I quite honestly have not been aware of.

Years later, I had become aware this was likely not Hungarian at all, but Arabian, and probably among the array of sabres used by various Bedouin tribes over vast regional probabilities. Reading Elgood, again years after that I realized that Hungarian blades had indeed often entered Arabia and presumed that was likely the case through various Ottoman entrepots.
What was always a mystery was what in the world were the strange words with those distinct 'z's , a maker, a motto?
Eventually in a transaction with another dealer I traded this away and quite clearly for 'a song' compared to what it cost me and now, even more clearly, it was more intrinsically valuable than I thought. He had minimized the wording and devices as 'jibberish' and insignificant, completely indecipherable.

This moment in reading this I realize those blade markings are exactly what you describe as the 'Transylanian knot', and something extremely important to me with my fascination in blade markings.

With the sword you have posted, the markings are clearly 'field' type ersatz markings applied to a refurbished sword in any number of circumstances in the long working lives of these Arabian sabres. It would appear to me that the stylized beaked birdhead hilt is compellingly like this early Hungarian form, and quite possibly an example of early components with added crossguard to the original blade, maybe even the hilt. I would be inclined to think that the hilt form, although shown as 17th century probably remained traditionally used well through the 18th c. in Hungary and environs. It certainly presents tempting associations worthy of further research.

I'd like to know more on this 'Transylvanian knot' for my own purposes on blade markings, and what sort of talismanic use etc. I know it doesnt necessarily apply to this blade overall, but the link to the sabre I owned years ago seems in accord with this example.

Outstanding example and keen observations, thank you!

All the best,
Jim

17th December 2012, 06:23 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Wow! Ariel, I think you have hit on something here! at least it has revealed something to me that has been a mystery for well over thirty years! I once acquired what was listed as an 18th century Hungarian Hussars sabre from a well known and somewhat notorious dealer. It had no scabbard and a somewhat damaged pistol grip Ottoman style with narrow crossguard quillons. The blade was virtually like this one, but most importantly there were engraved banner type devices with words like those described in the 'Transylvanian knot'....something I quite honestly have not been aware of. Years later, I had become aware this was likely not Hungarian at all, but Arabian, and probably among the array of sabres used by various Bedouin tribes over vast regional probabilities. Reading Elgood, again years after that I realized that Hungarian blades had indeed often entered Arabia and presumed that was likely the case through various Ottoman entrepots. What was always a mystery was what in the world were the strange words with those distinct 'z's , a maker, a motto? Eventually in a transaction with another dealer I traded this away and quite clearly for 'a song' compared to what it cost me and now, even more clearly, it was more intrinsically valuable than I thought. He had minimized the wording and devices as 'jibberish' and insignificant, completely indecipherable. This moment in reading this I realize those blade markings are exactly what you describe as the 'Transylanian knot', and something extremely important to me with my fascination in blade markings. With the sword you have posted, the markings are clearly 'field' type ersatz markings applied to a refurbished sword in any number of circumstances in the long working lives of these Arabian sabres. It would appear to me that the stylized beaked birdhead hilt is compellingly like this early Hungarian form, and quite possibly an example of early components with added crossguard to the original blade, maybe even the hilt. I would be inclined to think that the hilt form, although shown as 17th century probably remained traditionally used well through the 18th c. in Hungary and environs. It certainly presents tempting associations worthy of further research. I'd like to know more on this 'Transylvanian knot' for my own purposes on blade markings, and what sort of talismanic use etc. I know it doesnt necessarily apply to this blade overall, but the link to the sabre I owned years ago seems in accord with this example. Outstanding example and keen observations, thank you! All the best, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 17th December 2012 at 10:31 PM.