Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Gustav · 3rd January 2023, 09:31 AM

On commission - Groneman writes, p. 44: "I was permitted, in the name of the Austrian Senior Governmental Administrator Franz Heger, the well-known ethnologist and ethnographer, to commission the production of five krisses, each of which was to be decorated with one of the five ancient Javanese pamor motifs (...)"

Dr. Heger, Head of the Anthropological-Ethnographical Department of the Imperial Art History Museum in Vienna, writes in his report: "Thanks to the friendly mediation of Dr. Groneman, the reporter was introduced to the representative of Prince Paku Allam in Djokja, who commissioned his court blacksmith to produce five kris blades with the main Pamors for the Court Museum in Vienna"

This Pakualaman representative is Pangeran Arjo Noto di Rodjo.

The five straight blades still are in Vienna, the Museum is now called Welt Museum.

Groneman served as a middleman also for other persons, ordering Keris from Karyodikromo.

Most of Keris Groneman were given, had acquired, or commissioned for himself after his death were given to the Museum in Leiden.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Regarding the last Luk, I would like to object - Keris 11, 12, 16 don't have a long last Luk, the shape of this last Luk is typical for Karyodikromo. Keris 18 is here an exeption.

Incidentally, description of Keris on p. 233 in museums online catalogue includes the mention it has been made by Karyodikromo.

For the other Keris in collection, which are 1 and 3, no such mentions can be find.

I can assure you, that, when Groneman mentions "the Empu" or "our Empu" without a name in descriptions of plates or in other articles devoted to smithing in Pakualaman, he means Karyodikromo.

Of course I am avare of the fact, that a word of a person with knowledge that has been gained in the absence of adequate time & experience & tuition means as much as a lecture of 6 years old child on the intricacies of Quantum Mechanics. I guess I must live with this bitter yoke, which surely will last forever on me.

I am very pleased to be able to accept your compliments.

3rd January 2023, 09:31 AM	#32
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,196	On commission - Groneman writes, p. 44: "I was permitted, in the name of the Austrian Senior Governmental Administrator Franz Heger, the well-known ethnologist and ethnographer, to commission the production of five krisses, each of which was to be decorated with one of the five ancient Javanese pamor motifs (...)" Dr. Heger, Head of the Anthropological-Ethnographical Department of the Imperial Art History Museum in Vienna, writes in his report: "Thanks to the friendly mediation of Dr. Groneman, the reporter was introduced to the representative of Prince Paku Allam in Djokja, who commissioned his court blacksmith to produce five kris blades with the main Pamors for the Court Museum in Vienna" This Pakualaman representative is Pangeran Arjo Noto di Rodjo. The five straight blades still are in Vienna, the Museum is now called Welt Museum. Groneman served as a middleman also for other persons, ordering Keris from Karyodikromo. Most of Keris Groneman were given, had acquired, or commissioned for himself after his death were given to the Museum in Leiden. I hope this clarifies the matter. Regarding the last Luk, I would like to object - Keris 11, 12, 16 don't have a long last Luk, the shape of this last Luk is typical for Karyodikromo. Keris 18 is here an exeption. Incidentally, description of Keris on p. 233 in museums online catalogue includes the mention it has been made by Karyodikromo. For the other Keris in collection, which are 1 and 3, no such mentions can be find. I can assure you, that, when Groneman mentions "the Empu" or "our Empu" without a name in descriptions of plates or in other articles devoted to smithing in Pakualaman, he means Karyodikromo. Of course I am avare of the fact, that a word of a person with knowledge that has been gained in the absence of adequate time & experience & tuition means as much as a lecture of 6 years old child on the intricacies of Quantum Mechanics. I guess I must live with this bitter yoke, which surely will last forever on me. I am very pleased to be able to accept your compliments. Last edited by Gustav; 3rd January 2023 at 10:25 AM.