Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · 5th February 2013, 01:14 PM

It is always valuable to learn of another perspective on the written sources that may be of value for one wishing to gain a little knowledge of the keris, and I appreciate your opinion Kai, perhaps even more than Yuuzan might, and I thank you for offering that opinion.

However Kai, having said that, I feel that you have now placed me in a position where I must justify my own opinion.

The value of Ensiklopedi to somebody who does not read Indonesian is in the multitude of illustrations and their captions; to understand those, very little, if any knowledge of Bahasa Indonesia is required. The observation that "more up to date" sources are available on line is interesting to me, as my own inclination is to turn to the traditional sources for reliable information in respect of classificatory information, rather than more recent sources, and Ensiklopedi is principally a book that provides classificatory information. Bambang Harsrinuksmo drew upon both current opinion, and upon the literature of a past age in his compilation of Ensiklopedi, which makes of it a "one-stop shop" if we need a quick and easy classification.

Groneman's work is a landmark, no doubt about it. As a part of history it is of extreme value, and deserves to be read by all of us who have a keris interest. However, although there is much of value in this work, there are also more than a few flaws. Flaws which are to be expected when we consider the time at which it was written, and the societal position of the person who wrote it. Groneman is of great historical interest, but as a source of information I could not recommend it to a newcomer attempting to come to terms with the keris. Where I do find Groneman to be of great interest is as a reflection of the light in which the Javanese regarded their Dutch masters.

I have great respect for the late Karsten Sejr Jensen, and as with several other authors for whom I also have great personal respect, I will refrain from comment on his work.

Actually, it would not surprise me if Yuuzan does have some ability to read Indonesian, as the two links he provided and which were then edited out in accordance with Forum rules, were to sites that were written in Indonesian.

Again I thank you for your opinion Kai, and I would beg your indulgence if I may, in the provision of a further opinion.

I may be wrong, but I feel that most serious students of the keris are in agreement that an understanding of the keris cannot be gained from books written principally about the keris, but rather from reference works dealing with sociology and anthropology. Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide us with some of your recommendations in those fields? I am constantly searching for material I have not yet seen in these fields that could assist my own limited understanding.

5th February 2013, 01:14 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,713	It is always valuable to learn of another perspective on the written sources that may be of value for one wishing to gain a little knowledge of the keris, and I appreciate your opinion Kai, perhaps even more than Yuuzan might, and I thank you for offering that opinion. However Kai, having said that, I feel that you have now placed me in a position where I must justify my own opinion. The value of Ensiklopedi to somebody who does not read Indonesian is in the multitude of illustrations and their captions; to understand those, very little, if any knowledge of Bahasa Indonesia is required. The observation that "more up to date" sources are available on line is interesting to me, as my own inclination is to turn to the traditional sources for reliable information in respect of classificatory information, rather than more recent sources, and Ensiklopedi is principally a book that provides classificatory information. Bambang Harsrinuksmo drew upon both current opinion, and upon the literature of a past age in his compilation of Ensiklopedi, which makes of it a "one-stop shop" if we need a quick and easy classification. Groneman's work is a landmark, no doubt about it. As a part of history it is of extreme value, and deserves to be read by all of us who have a keris interest. However, although there is much of value in this work, there are also more than a few flaws. Flaws which are to be expected when we consider the time at which it was written, and the societal position of the person who wrote it. Groneman is of great historical interest, but as a source of information I could not recommend it to a newcomer attempting to come to terms with the keris. Where I do find Groneman to be of great interest is as a reflection of the light in which the Javanese regarded their Dutch masters. I have great respect for the late Karsten Sejr Jensen, and as with several other authors for whom I also have great personal respect, I will refrain from comment on his work. Actually, it would not surprise me if Yuuzan does have some ability to read Indonesian, as the two links he provided and which were then edited out in accordance with Forum rules, were to sites that were written in Indonesian. Again I thank you for your opinion Kai, and I would beg your indulgence if I may, in the provision of a further opinion. I may be wrong, but I feel that most serious students of the keris are in agreement that an understanding of the keris cannot be gained from books written principally about the keris, but rather from reference works dealing with sociology and anthropology. Perhaps you would be so kind as to provide us with some of your recommendations in those fields? I am constantly searching for material I have not yet seen in these fields that could assist my own limited understanding.