[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by David

Hi Lorenz....i think we all appreciate the time and effort you are making here presenting all these wonderful images. However, the idea that cultural mythology is reflected in the arts and weaponry of the people of that culture is hardly an unheard of concept around here. The postings are getting a bit repetitious and are taking up a bit of bandwidth as well, so i think many of us are wondering if you might be coming to some sort of point with all this. What are your conclusions based upon the ideas you have put forth?

Hi David ... thanks for the note. And as a quick reply:

- I'll surely come up with the conclusions very shortly, as I'm almost there as you have correctly inferred

- bandwidth: these pics are admittedly many, but they are quite lightweight, averaging just a little over 40kB each as I recall

- back to the conclusions I'll be presenting, here's a preview off the top of my head:

(a) the bird and serpent themes of the subject swords have been validated for sure, and though this is old news, I believe that confirmations from time to time are important to make sure our common current train of thought is really on the right track;

(b) given that the barung, kris, and pira are mostly about the sun-bird deity for their icons used, I'll also be reasserting that the kampilan's overall iconography is also about the sun-bird deity, and thus the bifurcated hilt is not the gaping jaws of a croc;

(c) on a related matter, I'll also be posing the query as to why the squatting figure was not used at all in Moro swords, whereas in Malaysian and Indonesian kerises they were used a lot (is that what is called the jawa demam, a form depicting a squatting figurine with arms folding of hugging the body)?;

(d) moving northward in the Philippines into the Visayas, I'll also posit that the long-nosed pommels of sandukos and taribongs, and the grinning man-like figures on the pommels of other Visayan swords, are likewise representations of departed ancestors, as the Visayans' expression of their ancestral worship [note: the Visayans are supposed to have put more weight over ancestral worship, as compared to other Phil. groups];

(e) further north in the case of Ilocano blades, I'll also be arguing that the man/woman figures on the pommel must then be images of departed ancestors, for ethnographic coherence; and

(f) given that in the ancient religions as cited, the achieving of cosmic balance amongst the gods of the upper- and underworld, and also with the departed ancestors, is considered very important, then I'll also be arguing that this supposed balance is not only achieved within the weapon itself [like what Ron illustrated in this thread earlier], but said balance is also strived for by the ethnic warrior in his personal adornments, tattoos, etc., which likewise refer to the symbols of the underworld and upperworld.

The last point may probably be off-topic already as far as this forum is concerned. But perhaps it's also worth mentioning in passing.

Now I also wanted to show how these ancient paganistic religions of ours tend to persist over time and space. In particular, the farthest migrations of these Austronesians reached Easter Island. And we can see how the same beliefs and practices came with them fully intact --

These huge statues, called moai are representations of departed ancestors. And upon closer examination of the carvings on them, we again see the cult of the bird. So once more, the same brand of animism side by side with ancestral worship is found.

Aside from the same theology, the ethnography would also be very similar: the moais have distended earlobes also, same as the old practice in Malaysia-Indonesia-Phils., and the moais also have the typical headdress of our peoples, the putong.

Finally, may I also take this opportunity to inquire from David, Alan, Gustav, and the other experts in Indonesian kerises, as to the 'deal' on the squatting figure on the keris hilts?

In particular: (a) is the belief that the jawa demam is a departed ancestor an uncontested one?; (b) compared to the bird pommel designs on kerises, would a jawa demam form be considered more potent, talismanic-wise, or is this a matter of geography, as to the preferred pommel design? and (c) is there a keris where the pommel's design is a serpent or naga instead. Thanks in advance.