Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 1st May 2012, 07:09 PM

Hi Spunjer,
Im with everyone else in agreeing this is an extremely nice Moro keris, and while I know little on these weapons I do find the crosses intriguing. Without entering the area of the somewhat daunting classification and nomenclature of Moro keris, I am wondering why this blade would be considered to be possibly European.
From what I understand, the guard (gangya?) on these blades was inclined to be made separately on early examples, so the blade itself having this distinct flared blade base would be understandable if the guard and stirrup were added on to a European blade. It would also be understandable to have Spanish weaponry available, and the Spanish type helmets and mail were used by the Moro.
However I dont know of any European blades with this type of parallel fuller configurations offhand. The crosses do of course lean toward those often seen on European blades, but in those cases typically either enclose inscriptions or names, and are not used in what appears to be a linear numeric sequence. Native use of these kinds of marks does seem to follow that characteristic. I would point out that crosses, along with other well known marks such as the running wolf, sickle marks, anchors etc. are not makers marks, though in some cases certain makers may have favored the use of certain ones as well as number combinations and inscriptions.

From what I understand of Moro blades (again, very liittle

it does seem they often carried talismanic inscriptions, I think there was a article in "Arts of Asia" some years ago by Robert Cato. As has been well noted, the cross as a symbol far predates Christianity, and has been known to represent cosmological symbolism as well as the four cardinal directions. These applications are found in many contexts outside religious themes, and are known to occur in those of various religions outside the more typically observed Christian uses.

I would consider these crosses to be Moro native applied and most likely adopted in talismanic parlance with numerically oriented basis, with the other symbolics interspersed. The heraldic style cross is most likely an artistic interpretation of those seen on European blades.

1st May 2012, 07:09 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,742	Hi Spunjer, Im with everyone else in agreeing this is an extremely nice Moro keris, and while I know little on these weapons I do find the crosses intriguing. Without entering the area of the somewhat daunting classification and nomenclature of Moro keris, I am wondering why this blade would be considered to be possibly European. From what I understand, the guard (gangya?) on these blades was inclined to be made separately on early examples, so the blade itself having this distinct flared blade base would be understandable if the guard and stirrup were added on to a European blade. It would also be understandable to have Spanish weaponry available, and the Spanish type helmets and mail were used by the Moro. However I dont know of any European blades with this type of parallel fuller configurations offhand. The crosses do of course lean toward those often seen on European blades, but in those cases typically either enclose inscriptions or names, and are not used in what appears to be a linear numeric sequence. Native use of these kinds of marks does seem to follow that characteristic. I would point out that crosses, along with other well known marks such as the running wolf, sickle marks, anchors etc. are not makers marks, though in some cases certain makers may have favored the use of certain ones as well as number combinations and inscriptions. From what I understand of Moro blades (again, very liittle it does seem they often carried talismanic inscriptions, I think there was a article in "Arts of Asia" some years ago by Robert Cato. As has been well noted, the cross as a symbol far predates Christianity, and has been known to represent cosmological symbolism as well as the four cardinal directions. These applications are found in many contexts outside religious themes, and are known to occur in those of various religions outside the more typically observed Christian uses. I would consider these crosses to be Moro native applied and most likely adopted in talismanic parlance with numerically oriented basis, with the other symbolics interspersed. The heraldic style cross is most likely an artistic interpretation of those seen on European blades.