Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

fernando · 19th October 2017, 11:50 AM

Old 20th October 2009, 04:39 PM

Posted by.
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

When I first saw this, I thought also of the 'Caribbean' versions of cup hilt rapier, as described by Peterson and Brickerhoff/Chamberlain, and are as previously noted, basically military 'arming' versions of the traditional cuphilt.
However, this example has more refined, though heavy, styling carrying the vestigial elements such as the rompepuntas.

The term 'Caribbean' seems to have become somewhat misaligned as these are actually 'colonial' as thier use and apparantly their production appear to have been widespread far beyond that sphere.
The dual colored grip is similar to those seen on Spanish colonial hilts on a number of edged weapons typically of latter 18th into early 19th. I have an example of court type sword of probably 1820's Mexico with this type of horn/ivory type grip. In style it is also with neoclassic style elements that are often seemingly incongruent, such as vestigial quillon arms placed reduntantly under a dish guard.

The mark truly is intriguing, and I think is likely associated in some way to an officer, probably with interest or membership in a group in league with the numerous fraternal or perhaps some Masonic presence. Also, it would seem that the use of the Caravaca Cross, with South American prevalence mentioned may have some bearing on its presumed colonial provenance.
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19th October 2017, 11:50 AM	#161
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,642	Old 20th October 2009, 04:39 PM Posted by. Jim McDougall EAA Research Consultant Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 When I first saw this, I thought also of the 'Caribbean' versions of cup hilt rapier, as described by Peterson and Brickerhoff/Chamberlain, and are as previously noted, basically military 'arming' versions of the traditional cuphilt. However, this example has more refined, though heavy, styling carrying the vestigial elements such as the rompepuntas. The term 'Caribbean' seems to have become somewhat misaligned as these are actually 'colonial' as thier use and apparantly their production appear to have been widespread far beyond that sphere. The dual colored grip is similar to those seen on Spanish colonial hilts on a number of edged weapons typically of latter 18th into early 19th. I have an example of court type sword of probably 1820's Mexico with this type of horn/ivory type grip. In style it is also with neoclassic style elements that are often seemingly incongruent, such as vestigial quillon arms placed reduntantly under a dish guard. The mark truly is intriguing, and I think is likely associated in some way to an officer, probably with interest or membership in a group in league with the numerous fraternal or perhaps some Masonic presence. Also, it would seem that the use of the Caravaca Cross, with South American prevalence mentioned may have some bearing on its presumed colonial provenance. . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 02:39 PM.