Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - LUSO-CINGALEZE MATCHLOKS

fernando · 2nd May 2007, 10:41 PM

Hi Ward and Philip
I know i don't have enough background to go onto an academic discussion in this subject.
But let's consider that, with due respect to Elgood, Daehnhardt is also an authority in this area. This to say he was one of the persons in charge of the classification and identification of the articles contained in this catalogue.
Also in his work Espingarda Feiticeira ( Bewitched Gun ) of which Philip has a copy, he mentions in page 103-104, under what he calls Cingalese-Malayan locks section, the same example figured in the discussed catalogue, as being of Luso-Cingalese production. He also mentions that this pattern was originally produced in Ceylon, after being spread by the Cingalese smiths to Malaca and Java, reaching all Malasia, including Molucas and Philipines. He further mentions that Ceylon and Java wwere the main centers of such production. BTW, also the second picture i have posted is mentioned in same pages of Dahehnardts work. The specimen shown in Elgood's book as being Malayan is dated 1700. This doesn't avoid that this model was first produced in Ceylon, in the 16th century, and after reproduced in Malasia. Elgood also mentions in the same page that a firmly based Portuguese model was presented in an exhibition held in Lisbon in 1983. It happens that one of the events in which the specimen shown in the discussed catalogue appeared, the 17th European Council exhibition, was precisely in 1983. Also the quoted footnote "4" mentions, apart from "Barreto and others", the initials RD, which could well mean Rainer Dahehnardt, a name that appears in the final credits of his work.
And finally, Elgood's specimen appears with a locally made barrel, certainly of that period, whereas in the example shown in the catalogue, the piece shown is equipped with a Portuguese barrel which, still according to Dahehnardts in Espingarda Feiticeira, could have being made in Goa, in the famous Casa das Dez Mil Espingardas. This would have certainly been a much earlier specimen. Eventually such barrel does not appear in the picture, so i can not post it.
But then again, comparing to you people, i know nothing about these things; i am just trying to be helpfull.
kind regards
PS
Philip, once you have got Dahehnardts ( bilingual ) book and also have some Portuguese language notions

, i will send you the catalogue texts that supported the two muskets, plus the answers to the questions you have posed by e-mail.
fernando

2nd May 2007, 10:41 PM	#5
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,641	Hi Ward and Philip I know i don't have enough background to go onto an academic discussion in this subject. But let's consider that, with due respect to Elgood, Daehnhardt is also an authority in this area. This to say he was one of the persons in charge of the classification and identification of the articles contained in this catalogue. Also in his work Espingarda Feiticeira ( Bewitched Gun ) of which Philip has a copy, he mentions in page 103-104, under what he calls Cingalese-Malayan locks section, the same example figured in the discussed catalogue, as being of Luso-Cingalese production. He also mentions that this pattern was originally produced in Ceylon, after being spread by the Cingalese smiths to Malaca and Java, reaching all Malasia, including Molucas and Philipines. He further mentions that Ceylon and Java wwere the main centers of such production. BTW, also the second picture i have posted is mentioned in same pages of Dahehnardts work. The specimen shown in Elgood's book as being Malayan is dated 1700. This doesn't avoid that this model was first produced in Ceylon, in the 16th century, and after reproduced in Malasia. Elgood also mentions in the same page that a firmly based Portuguese model was presented in an exhibition held in Lisbon in 1983. It happens that one of the events in which the specimen shown in the discussed catalogue appeared, the 17th European Council exhibition, was precisely in 1983. Also the quoted footnote "4" mentions, apart from "Barreto and others", the initials RD, which could well mean Rainer Dahehnardt, a name that appears in the final credits of his work. And finally, Elgood's specimen appears with a locally made barrel, certainly of that period, whereas in the example shown in the catalogue, the piece shown is equipped with a Portuguese barrel which, still according to Dahehnardts in Espingarda Feiticeira, could have being made in Goa, in the famous Casa das Dez Mil Espingardas. This would have certainly been a much earlier specimen. Eventually such barrel does not appear in the picture, so i can not post it. But then again, comparing to you people, i know nothing about these things; i am just trying to be helpfull. kind regards PS Philip, once you have got Dahehnardts ( bilingual ) book and also have some Portuguese language notions , i will send you the catalogue texts that supported the two muskets, plus the answers to the questions you have posed by e-mail. fernando