[fernando]

[QUOTE=midelburgo;273216]Hello Fernando. I believe the Hortuño sword is artistically not in the style of early XVIIth century but rather c1650.
I trust your judgement, by all means. I don't have the knowledge to distinguish that, myself.

The 1900 catalogue of Real Armeria is plagued with errors and legends.
Norman cites two portraits of Felipe IV with a cup hilt:
- Kunsthistorisches of Wien, dated 1632. (moustache).
- NY Metropolitan, dated 1623. But the sword is just a metallic reflection.
There is another portrait at Escorial with the future Felipe IV as a child, in 1612 by Bartolome Gonzalez.
Carlos II as a sickly child shall be about 1669.
It is a pity there is nothing as clear as Carreño de Miranda portrait of the Duke of Pastrana (c1679).
Alright, the Armeria catalogue contains errors ... but so many others. Those dark portraits provided by Norman and his judgement may not be error proof, either. For a start, he assumes the cup hilt is (quote) confined to Spain and lands under Spanish influence, that is Southern Italy and the Spanish Nederlands (unquote), making the mistake to leave out Portugal which, by the way, has been under Spanish Monarchy between 1580-1640. The usual cultural flaw of a few scholars, and not only, who think Portugal was a part of Spanish territory.


The "orejas" is what Luis Pacheco de Narvaez calls them in his work about Spanish Destreza "Nueva Ciencia" from 1642. "Patillas" sounds to me as XIXth century.
Noted. i still can't find a term for that over here. The authors of Armeria de Bragança catalogue, attribute to such extensions the same name as the quillons (quartões), as when there are upper and lower ones.

Actually I do not say Flambergue but Flamigera.
Yes, we could also call them in my language flamigeras or flamejantes, but these sound more like Masonic lexicon, from where the terms seem to originate. I find names like ondeada (undulated) more suitable.


.