Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Pinch of Snuff Basket-hilt

Jim McDougall · 13th March 2023, 10:45 PM

Keith thank you for responding on this, and your research on English sword making reflects the outstanding command of this history which is profoundly seen in your newly published "The Crown and Crossed Swords: German Sword Smiths in Shotley Bridge".

While Shotley was a later evolution of the great Hounslow venture of the earlier 17th century with German makers, as you well note there was still notable activity there even in the 1660s. There was a great dispersal of many of the smiths there when Cromwell overtook Hounslow in 1642, when a number of them left to follow Charles I to Oxford. Still, a number remained and as you well point out, Cromwell, despite turning some of them turned the mills into powder making sites. still had sword making activity.

I think your suggestion on Hugeunot potential for this blade is well placed.
It seems this convention of adding ANNO then date practiced it seems notably in Hounslow, then London on the blades indicates this was quite plausibly as indicated. The makers name on the blade HVMFFREIS and the curiously spelled LONDIN, seem telling.
No other blades marked London have this and are spelled correctly.

While Hounslow may have had activity, it seems that while it was in the proximity of London (12miles away) it was not technically in jurisdiction of the Cutlers Co. (which is why they could get away with the brass hilts). It does seem there was always a pretty brisk 'import' of German blades from Hounslow through Shotley and in the clouded periods between where numbers of independent cutlers were supplying the Board of Ordnance.
Oddly John Hawgood petitioned the B/O for permission to import some Solingen blades to fulfill his contact in 1685.
Perhaps he was adhering to rule as he was a master of the Cutlers Co. 1687.

Just wanted to add some of what I have been absorbed in concerning this blade on this basket hilt by Thomas Humphries, whose name does not seem to occur in any reference thus far.

It does seem this is a genuine heirloom blade mounted virtually a century later in this remarkable Scottish Stirling style hilt. I had not thought of the Huguenot potential, and as always, you come up with these astute thoughts often not thought of .

13th March 2023, 10:45 PM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,748	Keith thank you for responding on this, and your research on English sword making reflects the outstanding command of this history which is profoundly seen in your newly published "The Crown and Crossed Swords: German Sword Smiths in Shotley Bridge". While Shotley was a later evolution of the great Hounslow venture of the earlier 17th century with German makers, as you well note there was still notable activity there even in the 1660s. There was a great dispersal of many of the smiths there when Cromwell overtook Hounslow in 1642, when a number of them left to follow Charles I to Oxford. Still, a number remained and as you well point out, Cromwell, despite turning some of them turned the mills into powder making sites. still had sword making activity. I think your suggestion on Hugeunot potential for this blade is well placed. It seems this convention of adding ANNO then date practiced it seems notably in Hounslow, then London on the blades indicates this was quite plausibly as indicated. The makers name on the blade HVMFFREIS and the curiously spelled LONDIN, seem telling. No other blades marked London have this and are spelled correctly. While Hounslow may have had activity, it seems that while it was in the proximity of London (12miles away) it was not technically in jurisdiction of the Cutlers Co. (which is why they could get away with the brass hilts). It does seem there was always a pretty brisk 'import' of German blades from Hounslow through Shotley and in the clouded periods between where numbers of independent cutlers were supplying the Board of Ordnance. Oddly John Hawgood petitioned the B/O for permission to import some Solingen blades to fulfill his contact in 1685. Perhaps he was adhering to rule as he was a master of the Cutlers Co. 1687. Just wanted to add some of what I have been absorbed in concerning this blade on this basket hilt by Thomas Humphries, whose name does not seem to occur in any reference thus far. It does seem this is a genuine heirloom blade mounted virtually a century later in this remarkable Scottish Stirling style hilt. I had not thought of the Huguenot potential, and as always, you come up with these astute thoughts often not thought of .