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A. G. Maisey · 4th March 2014, 09:30 PM

And when we have a grasp of Balinese culture and society, we are well on the way to an understanding of the roots of Javanese culture and society.

Yes, certainly Jawa is different now to what it was during the Hindu-Buddha period, but even today those roots are still there, they anchor present day Jawa and help to make sense of the way in which Islam has grown in Jawa. Like the roots of an old tree, the Hindu-Buddha roots of Jawa are often well hidden, but push against the tree and you can feel the existence of the roots, exactly the same as if you push against tradition in Jawa.

Bob, personally I'm not all that keen on Groneman. OK, I'm an heretic and I should be burnt at the stake, but when I measure what Groneman reports as having seen against what I have seen and what I know is possible, I am forced to the conclusion that much of what he wrote was the product of supposition, or perhaps he just did not understand. To me, Groneman has a value from an historical perspective, but that's about all.

There is one book, or booklet if you will, that really should be on the shelf of every person who has a keris interest, and that is "World of the Javanese Keris" by Garrett & Bronwen Solyom. This is the only publication of which I know, on keris, that does not contain a single error. There are things in it that I do not necessarily agree with, but that does not mean that these things are wrong, only that we were taught by different teachers.

Because the keris came from Jawa, and because Jawa is really the only place where there has been an unbroken continuance of keris culture, for anybody to gain an understanding of the keris, they must begin with Jawa. There is no alternative. Not if one wishes to understand.

But to begin with Jawa one also needs a fine understanding of the Jawa-Bali nexus.

One does not learn the keris by trying to study the keris, but rather by a study of the culture, society, art, & history of the places where it is found. It can help a lot if one also has at the very least an understanding of Bahasa Indonesia.

But if all one wishes to do is to collect objects because the objects themselves appeal, well, that's OK too, but it really does diminish pleasure and understanding to a point where sooner or later many people who function at only this level get bored and move on to collecting WWII bayonets, or perhaps SE Asian textiles.

4th March 2014, 09:30 PM	#41
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,703	And when we have a grasp of Balinese culture and society, we are well on the way to an understanding of the roots of Javanese culture and society. Yes, certainly Jawa is different now to what it was during the Hindu-Buddha period, but even today those roots are still there, they anchor present day Jawa and help to make sense of the way in which Islam has grown in Jawa. Like the roots of an old tree, the Hindu-Buddha roots of Jawa are often well hidden, but push against the tree and you can feel the existence of the roots, exactly the same as if you push against tradition in Jawa. Bob, personally I'm not all that keen on Groneman. OK, I'm an heretic and I should be burnt at the stake, but when I measure what Groneman reports as having seen against what I have seen and what I know is possible, I am forced to the conclusion that much of what he wrote was the product of supposition, or perhaps he just did not understand. To me, Groneman has a value from an historical perspective, but that's about all. There is one book, or booklet if you will, that really should be on the shelf of every person who has a keris interest, and that is "World of the Javanese Keris" by Garrett & Bronwen Solyom. This is the only publication of which I know, on keris, that does not contain a single error. There are things in it that I do not necessarily agree with, but that does not mean that these things are wrong, only that we were taught by different teachers. Because the keris came from Jawa, and because Jawa is really the only place where there has been an unbroken continuance of keris culture, for anybody to gain an understanding of the keris, they must begin with Jawa. There is no alternative. Not if one wishes to understand. But to begin with Jawa one also needs a fine understanding of the Jawa-Bali nexus. One does not learn the keris by trying to study the keris, but rather by a study of the culture, society, art, & history of the places where it is found. It can help a lot if one also has at the very least an understanding of Bahasa Indonesia. But if all one wishes to do is to collect objects because the objects themselves appeal, well, that's OK too, but it really does diminish pleasure and understanding to a point where sooner or later many people who function at only this level get bored and move on to collecting WWII bayonets, or perhaps SE Asian textiles.