[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you for your further comments Ariel.

In my post #17 I asked this:-

"Ariel, if my understanding of that which you have written is incorrect I would appreciate your correction. It is important to understand how a message is to be understood before a relevant response can be written."

Since you have not addressed the matter of my understanding, I can only assume that you are in agreement with my understanding of your post #1.

In your post #19 you have expanded upon your ideas, but I do find that this new direction you have chosen does confuse me a little. I am now uncertain of exactly what type of research you are talking about, in your first post, you were quite specific in that your comments were focused on two separate, but related systems:-

a) academic research
b) scientific investigation

Now you have introduced the concept of "generality", and you mention "rules" several times. But then you move away from the two systems with which you opened discussion and you have diverged into another major system, the system of publishing the results of research. Academic Research need not be presented in any way, but the results of Scientific Research as a component part of the Scientific Method should be presented in one way or another.

I took your "musings" to be a fairly serious commentary on the research that often comes under discussion in this Forum, you wrote of the "rules of academic research", you asked if "our question is hypothesis driven", you queried the quality of the conclusions that had been reached. You drew parallels with your own professional work.

All of this is good, solid stuff. I can relate very easily to this, it is precisely the same sort of thinking that applies in my own profession, and exactly what governs the type work that I have done for most of my life. This work is audit, specifically operational audit, and using a systems based approach.

Before going into private consultancy I worked for a state instrumentality that was the owner/operator of a testing laboratory that was supposedly the largest and most highly regarded in the Southern Hemisphere, it might have been, it might not have been, I never researched the question. However, I was responsible for the audit of that testing laboratory, and from that involvement I also did private reviews of papers & articles produced by some of the people who worked there, written work produced by cadets who were working towards their first degree through to senior people who were engaged in post graduate studies.

So, coming from this background I read your initial post, and my impression was that you would have liked to see a slightly more disciplined approach to the research that is behind a lot of the discussion in this forum. My immediate thought was that yes, I can relate to that, let's not waste time on empty pipe dreams, let's focus a bit and produce some serious ideas.

But then I paused, and I considered the nature of this forum, and I concluded my post #17 by leaving the question open:- do we go the way of systematic research, or do we just wander around discussing generalities? Something to be said for both approaches, but I feel that in this forum perhaps a softer, more social approach might be the way to go. Polite discussion between gentlemen --- and ladies too, if we have any present, rather than incisive reasoning backed by dedicated systematic research.

Now Ariel, it seems to me that you moved somewhat from favouring the academic, scientific, hypothesis driven approach, and have moved towards a more "general" approach to research? Am I correct ?

In any case, we are still talking about "rules":- the "general academic rules of scientific research". But Ariel, you have not revealed those "rules " to us.

Please forgive me, I do not believe we are discussing the value or quality of any published works, publication of any research is a separate system to the research itself. The system of research might support the record of that research, but the publication of the record is a separate system. So, excluding all references to publishing of the results of research, and looking at only the concept of research itself, I believe that there are several terms that we need to clearly understand before this discussion can proceed.

The key words & ideas in your comments Ariel, appear to be:-

a) research, this word is from the word "search" to look for something, we all carry out research constantly, we want to buy a new car, so we research brands, models, prices; we want to buy groceries, so we research various stores for range and prices. This is general research, just looking for the best deal, or the most suitable solution.

b) academic, when we couple "research" with "academic" we become a little more specific, by definition, "Academic Research" is no longer just "research" it is a particular kind of research, and it is governed by rules, in broad terms the applicable rules are that Academic Research must employ a systematic approach and have an objective.

c) scientific, when we couple "research" with "scientific" we become even more specific, "Scientific Research" is a sub-system of the "Scientific Method". I have encountered a number of definitions of the component sub-systems of the system known as "the Scientific Method", the progression of this method of investigation looks something like this:-

question> research> hypothesis> test> observation> analysis> conclusion> presentation of findings

now, strangely enough this is a precise parallel with the methodology of Systems Based Audit, something that I have now been using for around forty years.
So, Scientific Research shares its nature with Academic Research, both are based upon a systematic approach, both have an objective, but Scientific Research is a part of the Scientific Method, which has as its ultimate objective the presentation of findings from that research, the findings from Academic Research might never be presented in any form.

d) rules, that is, the rules which govern both Academic Research and Scientific Research, well, the actual rules are the same:- the research must be carried out in a systematic way and that research must have an objective. It is a given that according to the field in which the research is being done, the elements of the system used and of the objective will vary.

The take-away from this is that once we introduce the concepts of "academic" and "scientific" the idea of "general" can no longer apply:- general research is what we all do constantly, Academic Research and Scientific Research both a have the requisites of system and objective.

We can research things in more or less general way, or we can research things in a structured, systematic way.

So Ariel, my question now is this:- as a standard for this forum, do you favour the more or less general form of research that is a pretty comfortable foundation for social discussion, or do you favour the hard edged systematic approach that can generate learned discussion and possible conflict?

Personally, I'd rather go with the soft approach.