Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 8th October 2019, 03:08 PM

Very nice and sound example Stu, and I would think it is certainly 19th c. of course. While I cannot say anything about wootz, I am more intrigued by the markings on the blade. The circle in the center of the grouping is hard to discern so am unclear on what it might represent, but the entirety of the marking group resembles European type configurations of much earlier, and the marks bracketing the orb look like the 'cogwheel' types (Wallace Coll., Mann,1962).
What is interesting is the style and placement which closely resembles those markings as if possibly Indian applied, in the manner we see the paired sickle marks in the same blade location.

It is pretty hard to tell if blade is European, but the yelman style suggests it is possible. Indian blade makers were pretty good, so hard to say. Obviously if wootz was present that would pretty well determine. Either way it would seem possible blade is earlier than hilt.

On the hilt, nice Rajasthan demeanor, and interesting arrangement of these striated discs that seem to occur in motif on hilts attributed to Hyderabad by Elgood in his Arabian arms book. The attached is one I have where these discs in more rudimentary fashion occur in the embossed silver of hilt.
The same devices appear on many Indian firearms, which seem mostly NW India.

Nice to see a solid scabbard with such an attractive tulwar.

The 'cogwheel' mark is seen in Mann, (op. cit. A768) and listed on a Swiss dagger, but this was widely used in Europe. It seems I have seen this entire mark group in one of the compendiums but cannot place yet, Im more inclined to think this blade European cavalry of possibly latter 18th. but more checking needed. Maybe European forum could help in this case?

8th October 2019, 03:08 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,738	Very nice and sound example Stu, and I would think it is certainly 19th c. of course. While I cannot say anything about wootz, I am more intrigued by the markings on the blade. The circle in the center of the grouping is hard to discern so am unclear on what it might represent, but the entirety of the marking group resembles European type configurations of much earlier, and the marks bracketing the orb look like the 'cogwheel' types (Wallace Coll., Mann,1962). What is interesting is the style and placement which closely resembles those markings as if possibly Indian applied, in the manner we see the paired sickle marks in the same blade location. It is pretty hard to tell if blade is European, but the yelman style suggests it is possible. Indian blade makers were pretty good, so hard to say. Obviously if wootz was present that would pretty well determine. Either way it would seem possible blade is earlier than hilt. On the hilt, nice Rajasthan demeanor, and interesting arrangement of these striated discs that seem to occur in motif on hilts attributed to Hyderabad by Elgood in his Arabian arms book. The attached is one I have where these discs in more rudimentary fashion occur in the embossed silver of hilt. The same devices appear on many Indian firearms, which seem mostly NW India. Nice to see a solid scabbard with such an attractive tulwar. The 'cogwheel' mark is seen in Mann, (op. cit. A768) and listed on a Swiss dagger, but this was widely used in Europe. It seems I have seen this entire mark group in one of the compendiums but cannot place yet, Im more inclined to think this blade European cavalry of possibly latter 18th. but more checking needed. Maybe European forum could help in this case? Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 8th October 2019 at 03:25 PM.