Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · 17th June 2019, 11:32 PM

Kai, as I wrote in my original post:-

This sort of broad, general weaponry is a bit outside my knowledge base, so what I'm putting up for consideration cannot be taken as any sort of expert opinion, only general knowledge based on experience.

There is a Batak sword like this that has a hollow grind --- ie, concave blade face --- it has a name something like rudos, or rodos or similar. Over the years I've had several, and quality and detail varies a lot.

This style of bifurcated hilt is usually associated with Sumatra, lots of stylistic variations, but in other places, including Sulawesi it is somewhere between rare and non-existent.

Forgive me.

I am old, I am tired, and I am sick to my guts as what I personally see as a rather ill-informed and unrealistic expectation that everything in the field of S.E. Asian material culture can be labelled and classified using information that is so incomplete and erroneous as to be laughable.

It would please me greatly if collectors and students in our particular field of study would cease the patently unrealistic and adopt a more measured approach.

In places where we can get half a dozen different names for the same object by going to half a dozen different houses a few kilometers apart, how wise is it to be too definite about anything?

We all know that material objects --- not just weapons, but all sorts of manufactured items --- move all over the region and have done so for more than a 1000 years.

Yes, it is in the nature of man to want to label things, but it would perhaps be more acceptable if we used attributions, or references, for instance :-

"A gizmo, collected 1995 Kaba-Kaba, Bali, Indonesia, location of origin:- attributed to Karanganyar, Jawa Tengah, circa 1893 (after Sutrisno)"

with this type of approach we say where we acquired the thing, we say where we think it might be from, we say what period we think it might be from, and we give the reference for our label:- Sutrisno.

There is a very nice little quote that I think is attributed to Lao Tzu:-

"The wise seem confused, knowing the imperfection of their understanding"

17th June 2019, 11:32 PM	#19
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Kai, as I wrote in my original post:- This sort of broad, general weaponry is a bit outside my knowledge base, so what I'm putting up for consideration cannot be taken as any sort of expert opinion, only general knowledge based on experience. There is a Batak sword like this that has a hollow grind --- ie, concave blade face --- it has a name something like rudos, or rodos or similar. Over the years I've had several, and quality and detail varies a lot. This style of bifurcated hilt is usually associated with Sumatra, lots of stylistic variations, but in other places, including Sulawesi it is somewhere between rare and non-existent. Forgive me. I am old, I am tired, and I am sick to my guts as what I personally see as a rather ill-informed and unrealistic expectation that everything in the field of S.E. Asian material culture can be labelled and classified using information that is so incomplete and erroneous as to be laughable. It would please me greatly if collectors and students in our particular field of study would cease the patently unrealistic and adopt a more measured approach. In places where we can get half a dozen different names for the same object by going to half a dozen different houses a few kilometers apart, how wise is it to be too definite about anything? We all know that material objects --- not just weapons, but all sorts of manufactured items --- move all over the region and have done so for more than a 1000 years. Yes, it is in the nature of man to want to label things, but it would perhaps be more acceptable if we used attributions, or references, for instance :- "A gizmo, collected 1995 Kaba-Kaba, Bali, Indonesia, location of origin:- attributed to Karanganyar, Jawa Tengah, circa 1893 (after Sutrisno)" with this type of approach we say where we acquired the thing, we say where we think it might be from, we say what period we think it might be from, and we give the reference for our label:- Sutrisno. There is a very nice little quote that I think is attributed to Lao Tzu:- "The wise seem confused, knowing the imperfection of their understanding"