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Old 9th August 2011, 12:03 AM   #30
A. G. Maisey
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,697
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I apologise for causing you such confusion Michael.

I sometimes forget that people are coming from a base which differs from my own, and do not have the same resources upon which to draw, I sometimes write or say something assuming that the things which are obvious to me will also be obvious to them, so I leave out steps in the thinking process, and not infrequently, I achieve nothing other than to confuse them, as I have obviously done with you.

I'm sorry.

I'll try again.

The societal organisation in pre-Islamic times in much of what is now Indonesia was very similar. Especially across the Islands of Jawa, Bali and Madura there was a sameness to society and culture that made these areas almost able to be viewed as a single societal and cultural unit. The societal components were organised in a similar way, and the fabric of the underlaying culture for all of this area was very similar.

Similar methods of agriculture were used, which only varied dependent upon the applicable climate and conditions, and similar tools were used to carry on that agriculture, however, these tools had local variations and sometimes the names also differed. For instance the arit --- a reaping hook or sickle --- is virtually universal, but in some areas it has developed a weapon form, and has a different name, as in Madura, where it is known as a celurit and is recognised as the characteristic Madurese weapon.

Now let us direct our attention to the progression of this thread.

Mark asked a question that relates to the kudi.

The kudi is a Javanese implement that even in pre-Mataram Jawa had a tool form and a weapon form. In its tool form it still exists in Jawa today. If one has seen a kudi being used to cut grass the unusual form is easily understood, as the protrusion near the handle acts as a stop for the grass that is being cut, and helps to gather it into a bundle prior to being cut.

When the kudi became a weapon, it was given a point, to make it useable as a thrust weapon , as well as a cut weapon.

There are a number of kudi forms, there is the tool form, the weapon form, a talismanic form, and the kujang.

Lexicographers regard the word "kujang" as a regional variation of the word "kudi". In Sunda the kujang has acquired cultural connotations that the kudi does not have in Jawa.

From this we can understand that inclusion of the kujang in a discussion of an ancient form of the kudi is irrelevant, however, a discussion of the kujang should include discussion of the kudi, as the kujang descended from the kudi.

Since we are discussing the kudi, and not the kujang, we need to direct our attention to Javanese culture rather than Sundanese culture.

Mark's question concerned one of the characteristics of an implement which exists in Javanese culture and society, specifically the holes that are almost invariably found in the talismanic form of the kudi, and that may sometimes be found in the weapon form of the kudi.

Tradition has it that the talismanic form of the kudi has existed for a very long time, certainly back into the Hindu era of Jawa. This is where our knowledge stops and myth, legend, popular belief and academic hypothesis takes over.

It is tempting to hypothesise that the three holes represent the Hindu trinity, however, even if there is an association, it more probable that the holes were created to receive something that represented the trinity.

It can be fun to play with ideas, especially when we do not know sufficient about the subject to be discouraged by improbabilities and contradictions. This is why I stayed out of this thread when it began:- I do not know sufficient to be able to provide the answer that Mark was seeking.
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