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Old 4th October 2014, 03:12 PM   #18
estcrh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo Nieminen
Some more (possibly) Chinese cha/sai:

Group of Highbinder weapons including a sai: http://amst312.umwblogs.org/2009/01/29/the-highbinders/

http://www.jikishinkobudo.com/articl...ection/8756081

Further to my earlier comments on trying to identify the origin of a particular sai, Okinawa was a major trade centre, connecting China, Korea, Japan, and the Philippines. A lot of trade went through Okinawa, with Chinese goods proceeding to Japan and the Philippines, and Japanese goods going to Chinese and SE Asia. Given domestic Okinawan iron production being what it was (I've seen it described as "absent"), a lot of "Okinawan" iron goods may well have been imported in the finished state, rather than being locally made.
Timo, as you know sai have been discussed repeatedly on various forums with many claims being made but usually no proof is furnished or images posted to back up what anyone is saying and in the end no new evidence is produced. Here we finally have at least a few images and some information to work with.

I have no knowledge of whether Okinawa produced its own iron products or if they imported tools and weapons from China etc, what I do know is that from the 1600s on Okinawa was under samurai control and I think that would preclude the open importation of weapons except possibly for the use of sanctioned police and security officials. Other individuals would have had to secretly import or forge their own from existing metal supplies. That is why Okinawa developed martial arts and wooden weapons from what I understand. This would also explain the scarcity of antique sai today.

Your one link was to a newspaper / magazine article from the late 1800s early 1900s? depicting the Chinese criminal element brought to American with imported Chinese laborers. It shows the types of weapons confiscated from Chinese criminals including a sai with a wrapped hilt.

Quote:
Highbinder, a member of a Chinese-American secret society that engaged in blackmail, murder, etc, named after the High-binders, a New York city gang.

The other links is very interesting, its shows a sai from the Royal Armories identified as being Chinese while at the same time it questions were it actually originated and asks for help in identifying it, which is exactly what we are discussing here.

Quote:
Antique Sai in the British Collection
By Jikishin Kobudo, Sep 27 2013 11:00AM
We are fortunate to practice martial arts amongst one of the largest collections of arms and armour in the world, at the Royal Armouries Museum in Leeds, England.

One of the objects on is display is exhibit XXVIM.17: Listed as a Chinese parrying weapon. The weapon is steel and measures 48.9cm in length. Its shaft is octagonal and the hilt is very sturdy.

The exact age of this weapon has not yet been determined, but we believe it to be at least one hundred years old. This weapon was purchased from a collection of South and East Asian weapons in the second half of the 20th century.

At the moment we are investigating as to whether this item is Okinawan or indeed Chinese and would welcome the thoughts of other martial artists with experience in this area. The item can be viewed at the museum inside the Oriental Gallery.
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