Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Choils and "Spanish Notches" on Ethnographic weapons

A. G. Maisey · 16th July 2018, 11:38 PM

A good idea to open up this discussion Ian.

In respect of the choil & notch thing, I feel I was on pretty solid ground in what I wrote in the other thread, but now I'm just floating an opinion.

I doubt that we can include the finger stop feature that is found on the Canary Island knives, on gaucho knives, on the Javanese choppers, and on similar blades, as either a choil or a Spanish Notch.

Even the unsharpened length of blade on that little Bali knife that I posted a photo of should perhaps be questioned as to whether or not it is legitimate to call it a choil. On the Bali knives this unsharpened, thicker length of blade is a design feature that is intended to permit the blade to be held to facilitate delicate work, this knife is designed to perform very delicate operations --- as an aside I have used these knives for many years as bench knives, and the design, which includes a chisel grind, is superlative for delicate operations.

So, if a choil is by definition a design feature that is put in place to facilitate the sharpening process, is it legitimate to name a design feature that has been put in place for a different reason to be named as a choil? I think not. That feature may serve a similar purpose to that of a choil, but is it a choil? No.

Applying a similar line of thought to the finger stop, or hand stop, found on Canary Island knives and other Spanish influenced knives, even though this finger stop appears in a similar position to that of the Spanish Notch, what is its primary purpose? Certainly not the primary purpose of the Spanish Notch.

Then we have the ricasso, something that I feel certain we all can recognise with ease at a distance of 20 paces. But can we? The ricasso comes in many forms, and when it declines from edge to hafting area, what do we call the section of decline? Is it a choil?

I tend to be a slightly pedantic in the use of words, I guess this sort of attitude might be forced upon one by virtue of profession or calling, but careful use of language can help to avoid problems after words have been spoken or written. I have developed the habit that when in doubt I ask Oxford, that is "The Oxford English Dictionary on Historical Principles".

If I do this with choil the entry tells me this:- First recorded use of the word "choil" was in 1888, origin is unknown, usage is related to cutlery, " The indentation in a pocket-knife where the edge of the blade adjoins the 'tang' or thick part by which it is hafted."

So it seems that the original use of the word "choil" was in the English cutlery trade and it was applied in particular to pocket-knives. The later more general use descended from this beginning. Usually the choil on a pocket-knife blade is just a little V or semi-circular shaped notch, so it would seem to me that in original usage the word 'choil' varied somewhat from the way in which this word is used at present.

This variation in use must direct our attention at the perhaps unanswerable question of just exactly where we draw the line in definition of the various names given to blade design features.

Pursuit of clarification in respect of this element of blade terminology could well see a new and better understanding of notches, choils, ricassos and finger stops --- and perhaps some other elements of blade design, the names of which presently escape me.

16th July 2018, 11:38 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	A good idea to open up this discussion Ian. In respect of the choil & notch thing, I feel I was on pretty solid ground in what I wrote in the other thread, but now I'm just floating an opinion. I doubt that we can include the finger stop feature that is found on the Canary Island knives, on gaucho knives, on the Javanese choppers, and on similar blades, as either a choil or a Spanish Notch. Even the unsharpened length of blade on that little Bali knife that I posted a photo of should perhaps be questioned as to whether or not it is legitimate to call it a choil. On the Bali knives this unsharpened, thicker length of blade is a design feature that is intended to permit the blade to be held to facilitate delicate work, this knife is designed to perform very delicate operations --- as an aside I have used these knives for many years as bench knives, and the design, which includes a chisel grind, is superlative for delicate operations. So, if a choil is by definition a design feature that is put in place to facilitate the sharpening process, is it legitimate to name a design feature that has been put in place for a different reason to be named as a choil? I think not. That feature may serve a similar purpose to that of a choil, but is it a choil? No. Applying a similar line of thought to the finger stop, or hand stop, found on Canary Island knives and other Spanish influenced knives, even though this finger stop appears in a similar position to that of the Spanish Notch, what is its primary purpose? Certainly not the primary purpose of the Spanish Notch. Then we have the ricasso, something that I feel certain we all can recognise with ease at a distance of 20 paces. But can we? The ricasso comes in many forms, and when it declines from edge to hafting area, what do we call the section of decline? Is it a choil? I tend to be a slightly pedantic in the use of words, I guess this sort of attitude might be forced upon one by virtue of profession or calling, but careful use of language can help to avoid problems after words have been spoken or written. I have developed the habit that when in doubt I ask Oxford, that is "The Oxford English Dictionary on Historical Principles". If I do this with choil the entry tells me this:- First recorded use of the word "choil" was in 1888, origin is unknown, usage is related to cutlery, " The indentation in a pocket-knife where the edge of the blade adjoins the 'tang' or thick part by which it is hafted." So it seems that the original use of the word "choil" was in the English cutlery trade and it was applied in particular to pocket-knives. The later more general use descended from this beginning. Usually the choil on a pocket-knife blade is just a little V or semi-circular shaped notch, so it would seem to me that in original usage the word 'choil' varied somewhat from the way in which this word is used at present. This variation in use must direct our attention at the perhaps unanswerable question of just exactly where we draw the line in definition of the various names given to blade design features. Pursuit of clarification in respect of this element of blade terminology could well see a new and better understanding of notches, choils, ricassos and finger stops --- and perhaps some other elements of blade design, the names of which presently escape me.