[A. G. Maisey]

Michael, I did not use an online dictionary, I used the hard copy Macdonell dictionary, when I came up empty there I posed questions to the author of an Old Javanese dictionary, and a professor of comparative linguistics. I have also put the question to a teacher of Sanscrit and Indian culture who used to teach at an Indian university, but who now lives in Canada.
I still have no answer.

I do not think that it is valid to transpose "j" and "g".To get a definite answer on that it is possibly necessary to go back to the original characters.

Is it possible that three academics could all be wrong, two of whom are probably the most renowned in their respective fields?

Yes, I guess it is, but if you could come up with the answer so easily and quickly, it causes me to ask why these other gentlemen could not, and also why I cannot locate the word in Macdonell .

If we go to "ganga" in Old Javanese, we get a direct Sanscrit link to river, which is synonymous with a goddess and with water. Ganga, gangga is one sound and idea, ganja, gonjo is a different sound and idea.

Michael, could you provide a link to the dictionary you quote, please?


Rick, to follow the method of construction that you suggest would be very, very difficult. Don't forget, we are fire welding, not gas welding or electric welding, What you propose would require precise fitting to an unfinished forging, then the taking of a weld where there is a long protrusion---the future pesi---sticking into the air in the middle of the weld area. I would not like to try this. It could possibly be done, but even with modern technology and a high degree of skill, it would not be easy.

These people were working with a fire in a depression in the ground, and weld heat was obtained with what was in effect feather dusters working up and down in hollow logs.The fuel was charcoal. What you can get with this technology is a very small spot in the fire where you can weld.

Incidentally, in Hindu belief, "ganga" refers to the Ganges River specifically, which flows from the toe of Vishnu. There is a whole story attached to this, which does not belong here. When the river is represented by a goddess, she is the eldest daughter of Himavat and Mena, and became the wife of King Santanu. Ganga, or Ganges has a number of other names and titles, but none seem to relate to the object that we are talking about here.

Actually, I would very much like to be able to demonstrate that "ganja", or "gonjo" is equivalent to "ganja", because if we could do this we could construct the fire/water/ earth trilogy into the keris and date that symbolism from pre-Mataram, with would synch very conveniently with the agrarian culture of Mojopahit, Mataram and before. However--- if academic knowledge cannot support the foundation, I'm simply not brave enough to take that leap.