Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Kayahan · 28th May 2007, 05:26 PM

Dear Ariel,

The correct Turkish word is "Karaçori" and it was an export item during the Göktürk period (Z.V. Togan, 1946. Also, Manouchehr's book has a number of references to Persian manuscripts on the subject.) Having no survived copy of a sword that is at least 13 centuries old is not enough to call it the Unicorn of swords, I believe.

Dear Alina,

The same above source (Z.V. Togan) states that Mongols were not advanced blacksmiths; instead, they were buying "quality swords" from Göktürks first, and later from Uygurs. Therefore, Mongols cannot be the developer of the "Kılıç form" (by the way, "yalman" is not the correct word for the false edge, as literally "yalman" in Turkish means the cutting or penetrating part of a cutting or penetrating weapon. Hence, for example, lances also have "yalman"s). It might have come from the East, and Persia might have been on its route; but I believe that it is more logical to assume that (if not locally developed) it was developed by the Turkic people in Asian steppes, and came along with their migrations during the Mongol invasion period. With reference to your theory and the paintings; if they were buying swords from Turkic people, it is obvious that Mongols, too, were using swords of this form during the invasions.

28th May 2007, 05:26 PM	#19
Kayahan Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8	Dear Ariel, The correct Turkish word is "Karaçori" and it was an export item during the Göktürk period (Z.V. Togan, 1946. Also, Manouchehr's book has a number of references to Persian manuscripts on the subject.) Having no survived copy of a sword that is at least 13 centuries old is not enough to call it the Unicorn of swords, I believe. Dear Alina, The same above source (Z.V. Togan) states that Mongols were not advanced blacksmiths; instead, they were buying "quality swords" from Göktürks first, and later from Uygurs. Therefore, Mongols cannot be the developer of the "Kılıç form" (by the way, "yalman" is not the correct word for the false edge, as literally "yalman" in Turkish means the cutting or penetrating part of a cutting or penetrating weapon. Hence, for example, lances also have "yalman"s). It might have come from the East, and Persia might have been on its route; but I believe that it is more logical to assume that (if not locally developed) it was developed by the Turkic people in Asian steppes, and came along with their migrations during the Mongol invasion period. With reference to your theory and the paintings; if they were buying swords from Turkic people, it is obvious that Mongols, too, were using swords of this form during the invasions. Last edited by Odevan; 29th May 2007 at 08:11 AM.