[Henk]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Tell me Henk, do you think that these collectors can differentiate between a keris that truly has an essence, and a keris that does not?

Alan, I don't think, if you don't mind. I was introduced by a famous Dutch collector and met some other collectors. The owner of the collection told us that he did feel anything of the presences of essences in his keris. He just collected keris, sorted to geographic origin, pamortype and also on beauty of the dress. Last was not most important, but still.
Another collector told us he could feel the pressence of an essence in the keris. Strong, weak or abscent. What is the truth? I don't know. If somebody tells me he can feel the presence of a spirit, who am I to deny it? I only can make my own conclusions just like we all do.

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Do you think they can differentiate between a keris that has been made by an empowered empu, and a keris that was made purely as an item of trade?

Or do they believe that all keris are sancrosanct ?

For this question, Alan, I only can give you my opinion that I think when a person who says he is able to feel the presence of an essence, and he confirms the presence of an essence, he will tell you that such a keris is certainly made by an empowered empu. If not, I think the discussion is how the keris is judged as an object. Is the keris old and antique or is it new and made in the traditional way? And if it is a new made keris, for what purpose was it made?
But they don't believe all keris are sancrosanct.

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Some years ago a man who is very close to the top of the keris world in Jawa, and who is considered by some people to be a living national treasure made the remark to me that in his opinion most of the "mystical-magical" beliefs associated with the keris could be traced back to either a direct or an indirect influence of the Dutch.

This is most definitely not to say that there is no esoteric nature to the keris, but it is to say that the way in which that esoteric nature is understood can vary greatly between the understanding of a Javanese or Balinese person, and the understanding of somebody from outside the culture.

In this last part Alan, I think we can find the answer. The presence of the Dutch had a strong influence in the Indonesian culture. The things the Dutch saw or didn't see, and what they couldn't understand. But we Dutch want to understand everything. Make a story of it with some spooky ingredients and blow live in it....... Isn't that human nature?

Personally I try to avoid these discussions. Discussions about belief or religion are endless and never result in right or wrong, good or bad.
I only gave my experience with other Dutch keris collectors and in my answers above, the opinion of the collectors who experienced the presence of essence.
If someone tells me he feels the presence of an essence I will respect his belief. What I think or believe is not important, or like a member on this forum once said "buy the keris, not the story".