Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post - Early European arms captured by the Ottomans

cornelistromp · 2nd April 2012, 06:53 PM

Hi,

yes, sword nr 5 is indeed Oakeshott Type XIIA, I described it as a precursor/forerunner of the type XVIIIC (actually not as a type XVIIIC.)
Because it has a blade with a kind of wedge towards the cutting edge, caused by the concave, this really makes it like type XVIIIC a pure cutting sword.

The mid rib of the type XVIIIC causes a similar kind of wedge towards the cutting edge. When the geometry and balance of this XIIa sword are improved during the time it can evolve into a cutting sword like type XVIIIC.

The group XIIa was created by oakeshott some time after his classification , I believe with the publication of ROMS, before these 2 hand swords with tapering blades and longer fullers were (incorrectly) placed in XIIIa.

Original swords with arsenal inscription and Tamga actually are not known, I am very curious about each example which has both.

about the type of sword # 1 is also much Published, for example by DG Alexander-European Swords in the collection of Istanbul partII.
Swords captured directly by the ottomans or recieved as Sultan gifts.
Sword #1 is placed in group XVII ,according to DG Alexander it is not possible to know when these swords fell in hands of the ottomans, only for the simple fact that during the 2nd half of the 15th century many battles have been fought.
An almost identical sword as nr 1 is in Topkapi Museum Istanbul under # A14793

best,

2nd April 2012, 06:53 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	Hi, yes, sword nr 5 is indeed Oakeshott Type XIIA, I described it as a precursor/forerunner of the type XVIIIC (actually not as a type XVIIIC.) Because it has a blade with a kind of wedge towards the cutting edge, caused by the concave, this really makes it like type XVIIIC a pure cutting sword. The mid rib of the type XVIIIC causes a similar kind of wedge towards the cutting edge. When the geometry and balance of this XIIa sword are improved during the time it can evolve into a cutting sword like type XVIIIC. The group XIIa was created by oakeshott some time after his classification , I believe with the publication of ROMS, before these 2 hand swords with tapering blades and longer fullers were (incorrectly) placed in XIIIa. Original swords with arsenal inscription and Tamga actually are not known, I am very curious about each example which has both. about the type of sword # 1 is also much Published, for example by DG Alexander-European Swords in the collection of Istanbul partII. Swords captured directly by the ottomans or recieved as Sultan gifts. Sword #1 is placed in group XVII ,according to DG Alexander it is not possible to know when these swords fell in hands of the ottomans, only for the simple fact that during the 2nd half of the 15th century many battles have been fought. An almost identical sword as nr 1 is in Topkapi Museum Istanbul under # A14793 best, Last edited by cornelistromp; 3rd April 2012 at 03:14 PM.