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Old 13th September 2013, 09:25 PM   #108
Iain
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Olomouc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Salaams Iain, Your post has interesting points which I don't disagree with in the least... for example In brief, the use of copied European marks applied locally onto these blades illustrates a link between local blade production, exposure to European blades and the associated connotations of quality perceived in the latter. I agree with that... but I don't see the blades as having been made in Europe and imported... in fact I see the blades as having been entirely concocted and designed for and by the new Dynasty in 1744.
I don't think the extremely flexible examples are made in Europe, quite the contrary. However, so far I have not seen a flexible blade example exhibiting any great age. This is partially why I've harped on provenance so much.

Quote:
Fullering certainly made the blades lighter and more flexible but I have no idea where the principle was invented or which direction it came from onto this flexi blade form. If I knew which Omani sword came first ... The Kattara(curved) or The Sayf(straight)... I may be able to answer that. I think there are a few examples of fullers in the old Omani battle sword... but again I need to check. At any rate I have just read of Mamluke swords see a part of the document of Pisanellos Hat which for reference is, in part, at note below which has blades with grooves inserted much earlier. Still it's interesting since as you indicate a possible European link that could be the case in terms of the fullers or home grown or transmitted from Timurid/Ottoman or other Islamic Dynastic forms.

On the point of flat blades ... The Old Omani Battle Sword is, however, not flat. It has what I would describe an aircraft wing shape; ovoid and quite thick in the middle. It appears to be designed for slashing and chopping. That, moreover, is another subject covered over on "The Omani Battle Sword" thread...but which I am pleased to discus here linked as it is with the dancing sword.
Fullers themselves are of course not an indication of European influence, but the configuration, use of marks and basic dimensions of the blades can be.

By flat I meant without fullers. But well noted on the slight midrib some exhibit.

Quote:
No Iain! you are indeed a sword expert in your own right and any comments I make which may appear "sordid" (scuse pun) are meant only in the context of the short jibe ... "The parry"... oft used in swordsmanship and even more so in written exchanges... No harm meant at all... Nice to have your comments on board even if you don't yet agree...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
Glad to hear it, communication in a virtual format is always a tad frustrating but I'm glad to see we are back to business as usual.

I've got a few inquiries going on for you regarding some swords in European collections, if anything interesting turns up I'll post it here.

All the best,
iain
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