Thread: Greneng
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Old 14th November 2007, 10:26 PM   #35
A. G. Maisey
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Join Date: May 2006
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Kai, I'm sorry, I noted your remarks after I posted my most recent comments.

In respect of my comment that:-

"---In light of these two factors, I believe that the assumption is reasonable that the greneng, along with some other ricikan of the modern Javanese keris, first appeared during the Majapahit era.---"

Kai, here I am making an assumption, that is , it is something that I am asking to be accepted without proof.

This would be a non sequitur if I had presented it as a statement, or a conclusion, and had relied upon my previous remarks in an effort to validate that statement or conclusion, but with an assumption I am not required to validate or prove anything.Thus, we cannot say my assumption does not logically follow from the previous remarks:- it does not need to logically follow, as it is presented as an assumption, not a conclusion, which of course should be able to be supported.

If we were to take the line that my assumption is not a reasonable assumption, then we would need to mount an argument to demonstrate the reasons for it not being reasonable. We cannot dismiss it, as we can an illogical conclusion, by simply saying that something does not logically follow from something else.

However, setting this aside, you raise the question:- "---Why couldn't some kind of greneng have evolved earlier?---"

Yes, it could have, but taking into consideration the time span nominated for the appearance of the greneng, it seems exceptionally unlikely that it could have appeared earlier. The Majapahit era can be taken to stretch from around 1290 through to around 1525. These are extremes, and the core period was much shorter. If we look at the keris form that most probably existed prior to about 1300 we find that those forms have not yet commenced development into the form of the Modern Keris. It is only with the Modern Keris that we find multiple complex ricikan.

Yes, there are examples of the early Modern Keris that do not have greneng nor ron dha, and lack other ricikan. This inclusion of specific ricikan is part of the system of dhapur, so the inclusion or not of specific ricikan depends upon the dhapur that has been created.
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