[A. G. Maisey]

On the subject of kagok capu.

In real life, on the ground, in Solo, we might refer to these as kagok, as capu, as kagok capu, or as capu muda.

There is slight variation in form between capu muda and kagok capu, and there is slight variation in form between CK from Solo and CK from Madura, also slight variation between these two "leaders", and the other places that use this overall form, those other places are just about anywhere that is not under direct influence of a kraton, places like along the north coast, Madiun etc, etc, etc.

In Solo this form used to be a form favoured by older men. The actual name "capu kagok" is not particularly flattering it implies roundness and clumsiness --- possibly something that we more senior people have in ample quantities.

There may be somebody who can positively identify variation between these intermingled forms, but I've never met him, or anybody who knows him. Thus, if we encounter this form we tend to just label it as CK, even though it might strictly be something else. If it has a wooden gandar it will probably get labelled Maduro, if a pendok, especially a Solo or Jateng pendok it will get labelled as Solo, but then if that Solo outfit has a Maduro wilah there will be an about face and it will be a Maduro deal. If there are no definite indicators you start to look a little harder and little more critically until you eliminate everything except a couple or three choices, and then you flip a coin.

However, let me make this point:- it is in my experience only hobbyist collectors outside of Jawa who are particularly concerned about this ID of dress. In Jawa itself it is something of academic interest but certainly not a matter of any importance, what is important is the classification of the blade and the overall quality of workmanship and material.

Why is it so?

Because as with any investment vehicle it is the bottom line that counts:-

how much is it worth?

what the entire keris is worth is based upon classification of the wilah and overall quality of workmanship.

The dress only has substantial value if it is of excellent quality.

The wilah only has substantial value if it has excellent quality, the degree of value then is determined primarily by tangguh.

What we're talking here is Javanese standards, and these are standards that are ingrained into the keris market in Central Jawa, and into the students and collectors of keris in Central Jawa. What goes on outsaide Jateng might as well be going on in outer space as far as people in Central Jawa are concerned. This idea of classification based on origin of dress is vaguely interesting, but it is totally unimportant to the real world, because the real world is based on money. Money is something that Javanese people understand very, very well.

What we're involved in with this thread, and the concept at its foundations is something that I regard as a wholly outside of Jawa attitude. I say "outside of Jawa", because this attitude seems to be prevalent with collectors in Jakarta too.

The questions that Yuuzan has raised are undoubtedly valid questions to his mind, and probably to the minds of others who engage in our discussions here, but for me, these are all very much side issues and frankly not something I ever give much thought to. When I look at any keris, the first thing that enters my mind is the quality question:- am I looking something of quality, or am I looking at a piece of garbage? Only later, sometimes much later, will I begin to note indicators that might give some indication of geographic point of origin.

When we engage in the tangguh game, one of the first things that we look at is the gonjo, not just the sirah cecak which is a very important indicator, but also the angle of the top of the gonjo. Have a look at post #9. Unquestionably Jateng. Why? Look at the top of the gonjo. A Jateng wilah matches the curve in a wrongko virtually always. A Wilah from the west, or the east, or most particularly from Maduro is very often flat, thin ugly. This #9 wilah is a poor copy of a M'ram keris --- well, it is still M'ram, but not what it might look like. It has characteristics of M'ram SA, but very much more coarse. In the markets in Jateng most salesmen would try to pass it off as M'ram SA. But its not. Its most likely Koripan, might be Godean, might be something else, but what I can see in the pic says Koripan.It sure ain't M'ram SA.

Look at the 7 luk wilah in the mamas SW. You will never, ever see a straight ugly gonjo like this on a Central Jawa blade. So where is it from? Jatim wr., Maduro style pamor --- if it looks like a duck it most probably is one, especially when we know with certainty that it sure ain't a rooster.

Jean considers I've floated some "interesting" opinions. I don't think so. What I've done is put in writing the sort of first impressions that anybody who understands this game would probably form. Minor variations perhaps, but the rules of the game are pretty well known, well, at least in Jawa they are, and if you have a few people with similar levels of knowledge, the disagreement is mostly in the detail, not in the big picture.After a while, this ID business becomes second nature, you don't really think too much about it, you look at something and it fits the template in your mind, but then you should be able to explain why it fits the template, and this is something that a lot of people cannot do.