Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · 30th July 2012, 11:49 PM

Yes Jean, I can understand your confusion, however, I think we need to look behind what is on the page.

Haryono Guritno is an authority in his own right; Bambang Harsrinuksmo was a journalist who was very interested in keris. There are a number of errors in EK, as well as a number of statements that have drawn strong disagreement from people I know in Solo.

However, this is not to say that Bambang was wrong, nor that EK is without value. Why? Because in the study of keris, opinions vary and those opinions can vary a lot. Its almost a matter of which school you went to.

Keris study is not a standardised study. Its not like Japanese swords where everything is written down and standardised; with Jap swords, if you have a good enough memory you can learn everything and win signature reading competitions against Japanese masters, even if you were born in London.

But you cannot do this with keris.To understand the keris you need to be able to think in a Javanese way and understand things as Javanese people understand things. Keris study is not about memory and categorisation according to set parameters. Keris study is about the culture from which the keris comes, and the language of that culture is not even a standardised language in linguistic terms. With keris, we need to take in everything and try to understand it within its own context.

EK tells us that pamor tangkis has the power to avoid illness caused by an epidemic, there is no mention of black magic.

Then if we look at the picture that is in EK we see a keris with faint, worn pamor on one blade face, and wos wutah on the other blade face.

Keris Jawa just describes the physical appearance of pamor tangkis, it doesn't say anything about its esoteric powers.

Then we have the fact that both EK and KJ are books that are primarily Javanese in context, yes, EK does try to move outside Jawa, but the influence on thought and text is Javanese. The blade being discussed is from Bali. The meaning of a little patch of pamor on one blade face could be quite different in Bali. Maybe it could be different in every separate kingdom in Bali.

The opinion I gave is exactly what I have been taught, and 90% of my knowledge comes from Solo.

Possibly there is room in this question for a little bit of leeway in various opinions.

30th July 2012, 11:49 PM	#20
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,703	Yes Jean, I can understand your confusion, however, I think we need to look behind what is on the page. Haryono Guritno is an authority in his own right; Bambang Harsrinuksmo was a journalist who was very interested in keris. There are a number of errors in EK, as well as a number of statements that have drawn strong disagreement from people I know in Solo. However, this is not to say that Bambang was wrong, nor that EK is without value. Why? Because in the study of keris, opinions vary and those opinions can vary a lot. Its almost a matter of which school you went to. Keris study is not a standardised study. Its not like Japanese swords where everything is written down and standardised; with Jap swords, if you have a good enough memory you can learn everything and win signature reading competitions against Japanese masters, even if you were born in London. But you cannot do this with keris.To understand the keris you need to be able to think in a Javanese way and understand things as Javanese people understand things. Keris study is not about memory and categorisation according to set parameters. Keris study is about the culture from which the keris comes, and the language of that culture is not even a standardised language in linguistic terms. With keris, we need to take in everything and try to understand it within its own context. EK tells us that pamor tangkis has the power to avoid illness caused by an epidemic, there is no mention of black magic. Then if we look at the picture that is in EK we see a keris with faint, worn pamor on one blade face, and wos wutah on the other blade face. Keris Jawa just describes the physical appearance of pamor tangkis, it doesn't say anything about its esoteric powers. Then we have the fact that both EK and KJ are books that are primarily Javanese in context, yes, EK does try to move outside Jawa, but the influence on thought and text is Javanese. The blade being discussed is from Bali. The meaning of a little patch of pamor on one blade face could be quite different in Bali. Maybe it could be different in every separate kingdom in Bali. The opinion I gave is exactly what I have been taught, and 90% of my knowledge comes from Solo. Possibly there is room in this question for a little bit of leeway in various opinions.