Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

kronckew · 11th August 2015, 04:51 PM

nice video. the disk pommel is there to force you to keep the blade at roughly a 90 degree angle to your forearm, unlike a western swordsman who would extend the blade with a lot more reach. this position encourages the draw and push cuts you see in the video. the disks on theirs are not as pronounced as many, and do allow a bit more extension, but a std. western thrust is difficult.

the man standing is holding his sword w/o fingering the guard & he has a reasonably large disk pommel. the seated man has his finger over, but i do not see a disk pommel of a tulwar, and suspect it is a short sword as mentioned.

western swords with simple cross guards are frequently used finger over the guard in a style where the hand is protected by an armoured gauntlet offering finger protection. as armour fell out of fashion,you start to get rings coming off the guard to protect the finger over the guard, and/or a guard extension bent down towards the pommel to protect the hand, eventually developing into the elaborate guards of rapiers and basket hilts, which further develop into again more simple guards of latter day swords. i've seen anumber ofn sabres with a leather loop behind the guard bowl to put your finger thru, and polish sabres frequently had a thumb ring for similar use.

i recall a scene in 'kingdom of heaven' where balial's dad tells him 'always take a high guard' - that makes sense if you note they were not wearing armoured gauntlets & the hand & forearm is much more vulnerable to stop cuts/thrusts with a simple cross guard. anything you stick out in front of you, arm, hand, foot, leg is a legitimate and tempting target and a cut to them can disable or even kill, or at least permit a killing followup. a man whose arm nerves or tendons have ben cut cannot hold his sword & thus is either no longer a threat, or vulnerable to a killing blow. ditto on the legs. major blood vessels in the inside of the elbow, the arm pit or the groin - inside upper thigh, allow fairly quick bleed-out with resulting death if not quickly stopped. and of course similar cuts to the more obviously vulnerable neck.

p.s. - a deep cut to the bone on the fore-finger HURTS*, almost as much as when the surgeon sews it back up. i would bet a chopped off finger would restrict a swordsmans abilities to use his weapon. he might then prefer a pata.

*frozen beef roast -1 : me -nil. finger is still a bit numb after 20 years where the nerve was cut. luckily it was my left hand.

11th August 2015, 04:51 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	nice video. the disk pommel is there to force you to keep the blade at roughly a 90 degree angle to your forearm, unlike a western swordsman who would extend the blade with a lot more reach. this position encourages the draw and push cuts you see in the video. the disks on theirs are not as pronounced as many, and do allow a bit more extension, but a std. western thrust is difficult. the man standing is holding his sword w/o fingering the guard & he has a reasonably large disk pommel. the seated man has his finger over, but i do not see a disk pommel of a tulwar, and suspect it is a short sword as mentioned. western swords with simple cross guards are frequently used finger over the guard in a style where the hand is protected by an armoured gauntlet offering finger protection. as armour fell out of fashion,you start to get rings coming off the guard to protect the finger over the guard, and/or a guard extension bent down towards the pommel to protect the hand, eventually developing into the elaborate guards of rapiers and basket hilts, which further develop into again more simple guards of latter day swords. i've seen anumber ofn sabres with a leather loop behind the guard bowl to put your finger thru, and polish sabres frequently had a thumb ring for similar use. i recall a scene in 'kingdom of heaven' where balial's dad tells him 'always take a high guard' - that makes sense if you note they were not wearing armoured gauntlets & the hand & forearm is much more vulnerable to stop cuts/thrusts with a simple cross guard. anything you stick out in front of you, arm, hand, foot, leg is a legitimate and tempting target and a cut to them can disable or even kill, or at least permit a killing followup. a man whose arm nerves or tendons have ben cut cannot hold his sword & thus is either no longer a threat, or vulnerable to a killing blow. ditto on the legs. major blood vessels in the inside of the elbow, the arm pit or the groin - inside upper thigh, allow fairly quick bleed-out with resulting death if not quickly stopped. and of course similar cuts to the more obviously vulnerable neck. p.s. - a deep cut to the bone on the fore-finger HURTS, almost as much as when the surgeon sews it back up. i would bet a chopped off finger would restrict a swordsmans abilities to use his weapon. he might then prefer a pata. frozen beef roast -1 : me -nil. finger is still a bit numb after 20 years where the nerve was cut. luckily it was my left hand. Last edited by kronckew; 11th August 2015 at 05:10 PM.