Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · 28th September 2010, 05:45 PM

Good call Ariel, on suggesting closer look at patination and the metalwork together. While Dmitry's suggestion on this guard being an element of furniture decor seems plausible, and quite innovative, I am still uncomfortable with the idea as the components of this sword are altogether too congruent.
The features seem to correspond too well, and frankly, many of these cut steel small swords and others of this period seem almost workmanlike. The Matthew Boulton I mentioned who made many of these seemed to follow an almost 'industrial' style in much of his motif. It was indeed an industrial time in England, and actually he had partnered with James Watt in developing the steam engine.....so the 'nuts and bolts' feel of a number of his weapons may have been aesthetically well placed.

I'm with Marc on the suggestion on French fencing foils, which seemed to favor the bilobate guards in many examples while others were the cupped disc in England and Italy. The French school of fence was deeply influential among the gentry in England it would seem, and that style of fencing and for that matter duelling was , I believe, the driving force behind the evolution of the smallsword during the century before.

I am wondering if this unusually long blade may suggest this to be a duelling epee of the period we are considering c.1790-1810, and as mentioned, probably English.

The duelling foils are simple instruments with the hilts quite rudimentary as they are not intended for actual combat but sporting events. While they are much like practice swords in having blunted and buttoned tip blades, they are very close vestigially to the actual sword types represented.

I think I'll stay with this being a Birmingham smallsword, quite possibly a duelling epee with French influence c.1790-1810. As Mark said earlier, it looks like a serious fighting sword, and in these times, a man's honor was very serious business, with duelling often almost mandated when compromised.
While the pistol had become most commonly used, it must be remembered that there was a choice of weapons agreede upon in carrying out the duel, and the tradition of the sword remained ever present.

All best regards

28th September 2010, 05:45 PM	#12
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,748	Good call Ariel, on suggesting closer look at patination and the metalwork together. While Dmitry's suggestion on this guard being an element of furniture decor seems plausible, and quite innovative, I am still uncomfortable with the idea as the components of this sword are altogether too congruent. The features seem to correspond too well, and frankly, many of these cut steel small swords and others of this period seem almost workmanlike. The Matthew Boulton I mentioned who made many of these seemed to follow an almost 'industrial' style in much of his motif. It was indeed an industrial time in England, and actually he had partnered with James Watt in developing the steam engine.....so the 'nuts and bolts' feel of a number of his weapons may have been aesthetically well placed. I'm with Marc on the suggestion on French fencing foils, which seemed to favor the bilobate guards in many examples while others were the cupped disc in England and Italy. The French school of fence was deeply influential among the gentry in England it would seem, and that style of fencing and for that matter duelling was , I believe, the driving force behind the evolution of the smallsword during the century before. I am wondering if this unusually long blade may suggest this to be a duelling epee of the period we are considering c.1790-1810, and as mentioned, probably English. The duelling foils are simple instruments with the hilts quite rudimentary as they are not intended for actual combat but sporting events. While they are much like practice swords in having blunted and buttoned tip blades, they are very close vestigially to the actual sword types represented. I think I'll stay with this being a Birmingham smallsword, quite possibly a duelling epee with French influence c.1790-1810. As Mark said earlier, it looks like a serious fighting sword, and in these times, a man's honor was very serious business, with duelling often almost mandated when compromised. While the pistol had become most commonly used, it must be remembered that there was a choice of weapons agreede upon in carrying out the duel, and the tradition of the sword remained ever present. All best regards