[A. G. Maisey]

Thank you for your reassurances that I have not insulted you David, but have merely been a source of frustration. I regret this frustration that I have caused you, but I probably cannot avoid causing some degree of frustration, or maybe merely dissatisfaction, because to address all that would need to be addressed to provide a clear understanding of the differences between your base, the European lay person's base, and the various levels that can apply in Jawa, would use an enormous amount of time and an enormous amount of words. Certainly more than have a place in a thread in an on line discussion group, a thread that declares in the first sentence that its purpose is to seek opinions. Possibly in order to gain those opinions we may need to engage in some rather convoluted discussion, but I do hope we can keep that to a minimum.

I'm going to use an analogy here in the hope that this may clarify why I keep repeating that there is a basic difference in the way that European people and Javanese people think that precludes the understanding of ideas and approaches to the world that we cannot see. This difference would apply as much to European understanding of that which is Javanese, as it would apply to Javanese understanding of that which is European. Moreover, because time alters perception the understandings and misunderstanding have altered throughout time.

To address the time factor, I will set my analogy in the second half of the 19th century; near enough to us in time to have some appreciation of the differences between that time and the present, and far enough away from us in time to permit comparison with the present.

Belief systems are an integral part of the human experience. The belief systems that any particular society, or person within a society chooses, or is obliged, to use are indicative of that society's or person's needs and obligations, and the availability of resources to satisfy those needs and obligations.

Food is similarly a necessity that permits the continuation of the human experience:- without food, we die. Except perhaps for some notably Indian extremists who apparently have been able to live for very extended periods of time in the complete absence of food --- but I think we can exclude those good people from consideration.

So, here we are in County Cork, Ireland, in 1875. Thomas Patrick considers that the peak of culinary delight is a good solid stew, full of mutton, potatoes, onions, parsley and with lots of good heavy dumplings. Thomas Patrick is a poor tenant farmer, he hasn't seen this sort of meal on his table often, but it is his dream cuisine.

But over the water in London, Cyril Peregrine enjoys nothing so much at table as a good roast with the usual side dishes. Cyril Peregrine is a member of the English upper class.

On the other side of the world, just outside Sragen in Central Jawa Pak Sigit is a poor tenant farmer, just like Thomas Patrick in County Cork. Once, many years ago Pak Sigit had been fortunate enough to be invited to his landlord's house for a gathering, and he had tasted kalak. He had never been able to afford to try it again, but sometimes in his weaker moments he would dream of that kalak, and his mouth would water.

Three different people, in three different societies with three different cultural bases.

All three have different ideas of what makes a really good meal.

Thomas Patrick and Cyril Peregrine would be able to eat each other's food, they might not enjoy it quite as much as their own food, but they could eat it.

But could they eat Pak Sigit's dream cuisine?
Not likely. In fact I would suggest that the mere smell of the chilli used in that dish of kalak would cause their eyes to water, make them sneeze and keep them 20 meters from the table.

What would Pak Sigit think of Irish stew and a traditional English roast?
Well, he could undoubtedly eat either, but would he enjoy them? No. In fact he would disallow them because of their blandness and for another very important reason:- neither meal is served with rice. A Javanese does not consider that he has had a proper meal unless it is based around rice.

If the time frame and the situation were to be changed, we would probably see Tom and Cy come to enjoy kalak, perhaps after living in Jawa for an extended period of time. In the 21st century Pak Sigit's grandson might win a scholarship to Oxford or Cambridge and come to truly love roast beef. Even in Jawa itself many of the younger generation drool over McDonald's and Pizza Hut --- mostly because they see it as a prestige thing to be able to eat this delightful cuisine.

So, food and belief systems.
Both necessary for continuation of the human experience.

What is acceptable, nay, necessary, or perhaps essential to a person from one cultural base is not necessarily palatable or even understandable by a person from a different cultural base.

Not without first gaining a thorough understanding of the society that has grown from that different cultural base, and perhaps not even then.

To return to here and now.

This difference and the difficulties involved in explanation, most especially in things associated with Javanese/Balinese perceptions of the Unseen World are the reason that I do try to avoid discussion in this area of knowledge unless I am in the physical presence of a person who has an understanding of the cultural base and society associated with the topic.

Quite simply it is not possible to understand one world view when working from the base of an entirely different world view.

David, I do hope that the opinions I have expressed above will clarify my position in this matter.