View Single Post
Old 22nd January 2008, 06:01 PM   #17
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,755
Default

Actually I am not aware of Arabian versions of the haladie, despite the fact that they were quite clearly known in Syria (as noted in Stone) and it is well known that many edged weapons for Arabia came from Syria (Damascus, which was an established trade hub).

The slave trade in Sudan seems to have focused more on captured individuals from tribes to the south of Sudan, and the trade routes through the interior that extended from Zanzibar, also a slave trade center. It is always fascinating to review the trade networks, those from the sea, then into the interior, and ultimately transcontinental via Saharan routes. The complexity and vast distances are amazing, and through the Sahara particularly are compounded by nomadic movement and tribal interaction that may account for many instances of weapons diffusion.

It is indeed quite interesting that the katar never seemed to gain acceptance in regions outside India, as well as previously noted, the tulwar. Yet, the noteably unusual haladie did become accepted in the Sudan, while remaining unrepresented in other places that certainly, as David has noted, experienced considerable trade and commerce with India.

I am inclined to believe that the haladie in the Sudan became established as more of a ceremonial and votive item as previously noted, with the association with dual blades of Zulfikar. It seems in discussion some time ago there was a dagger from the Sudan with a curious mark on the blade, a very stylized 'S' type mark, and I suggested that the mark may represent the haladie, noting its established regard ceremonially, and possibly used as a maker or armory mark. At this point no other examples have surfaced to support the idea..but one never knows.

As for the katar, its origins remain as mysterious as the term itself. While the term 'katar' also applies to a standard form dagger in northern India, it is suggested in Pant that Egerton erred in using the katar term, when it should have been 'jemadhar' (all considerable previous discussions). Stone shows the even more mysterious 'Moorish' gauntlet sword the 'manople' but does not suggest any association to the katar or pata (yet more discussions).

With the manople, it remains one of the few known example of transverse gripped
edged weapons outside India, and the example in Stone is believed a singular example that was held in the Royal Armoury in Madrid (Calvert). It would seem that the 14th/15th century attribution by Stone would be a bit optimistic, and more likely that it would have been influenced by either the Indian katar or pata at somewhat later date via trade from India, rather than this single weapon influencing an entire genre of transverse gripped weapons there.

Another curious instance of transverse grip 'push dagger' would be the 'T' handled form used by gamblers in San Franciscos "Barbary Coast" in the mid to late 19th century. No direct association has ever of course been established with the katar...however the ships that came to this intensely busy port in those times were from around the world, and the trade would have certainly brought exotic items from faraway places..including India.

Best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote