Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Gonzalo G · 17th January 2008, 12:56 AM

Hi, ´

A friend of mine, Martha, an advanced student in restoration, found a duble dagger in an Army Museum in Mexico, classified as an "Indian Haladie". Neverthless, she has been making some research to check this label, and she has found that there are also haladies classified as sudanese. Here, we have a very intersting subject related with the origin and use of the concept of "haladie". The dagger in question seems to be related to those classified as "sudanese", and not "indian" or "hindu". But the question it aroses is if haladies are, or not, of indian origin. If so, why we can found sudanese haladies, and not haladies in other part of the world, as far as we know? Were haladies an indian export? Or sudanese people developed another kind of "haladie"? If so, is it valid to call it also a "haladie"? Is the concept "haladie" a generic concept valid for all kind of weapons with doble or triple blade, with two oposed blades in this manner, at least?

George Cameron Stone (p. 275 from the 1999 edition) mention the rajput origin of the haladie, and only refers as third party, to an Egerton description as a weapon also used in Syria. But I was unable to find other descriptio of the origin of this weapon in Egerton, but as an arm from Egypt and Sudan (Egerton, p.168, Cat. number 189, 2002 edition), and though there is a descrption of this weapon in the number 390 of the general index of illustrations, I couldn´t find this illustration itself. I wonder if the extensive influencie of indian arsenal in the arab world, mentioned by S. Lane Pool in "Art of the Sarracens in Egypt", in the 1871 edition, and quoted by Lord Egerton, has anything to do with the making of this weapon, and if India made "trade blades" of this kind for the arab world.

In the following picture, we can see the weapon. It is similar to a weapon showed in Therion Arms, also classified as haladie, but the calligraphy is very different. I also would ask your support to translate this inscription as an aide to classify the weapon. All your comments will be very welcomed. Thank you:

17th January 2008, 12:56 AM	#1
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Sudanese Haladie? Hi, ´ A friend of mine, Martha, an advanced student in restoration, found a duble dagger in an Army Museum in Mexico, classified as an "Indian Haladie". Neverthless, she has been making some research to check this label, and she has found that there are also haladies classified as sudanese. Here, we have a very intersting subject related with the origin and use of the concept of "haladie". The dagger in question seems to be related to those classified as "sudanese", and not "indian" or "hindu". But the question it aroses is if haladies are, or not, of indian origin. If so, why we can found sudanese haladies, and not haladies in other part of the world, as far as we know? Were haladies an indian export? Or sudanese people developed another kind of "haladie"? If so, is it valid to call it also a "haladie"? Is the concept "haladie" a generic concept valid for all kind of weapons with doble or triple blade, with two oposed blades in this manner, at least? George Cameron Stone (p. 275 from the 1999 edition) mention the rajput origin of the haladie, and only refers as third party, to an Egerton description as a weapon also used in Syria. But I was unable to find other descriptio of the origin of this weapon in Egerton, but as an arm from Egypt and Sudan (Egerton, p.168, Cat. number 189, 2002 edition), and though there is a descrption of this weapon in the number 390 of the general index of illustrations, I couldn´t find this illustration itself. I wonder if the extensive influencie of indian arsenal in the arab world, mentioned by S. Lane Pool in "Art of the Sarracens in Egypt", in the 1871 edition, and quoted by Lord Egerton, has anything to do with the making of this weapon, and if India made "trade blades" of this kind for the arab world. In the following picture, we can see the weapon. It is similar to a weapon showed in Therion Arms, also classified as haladie, but the calligraphy is very different. I also would ask your support to translate this inscription as an aide to classify the weapon. All your comments will be very welcomed. Thank you: Attached Images