Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

baganing_balyan · 25th June 2008, 11:48 PM

Even curiga is not a specific term related to just Keris. Batik fabric too has "parang curiga"-- curlicue or snake-like design.

I think keris is specific for that kind of sword because of its use, meaning, and symbol being a court and ritual sword. hence, the word keras with many deep meanings describing that sword.

Most blades or swords don't have specific names-- they are basically different words from different dialects and languages with the same meaning-- sword. for instance, talwar is Hindi for sword. Sundang is also a Filipino word for sword. In short, a keris can be sundang or talwar depending on the language or dialect used, but sundang and talwar are not kerises.

In the philippines, a Keris or kalis can be called itak, taga, sundang the filipino words for sword, bolo, machete, and other that resemble to a sword. but in Muslim Mindanao it is kalis because it is not just a sword but a sword for ritual, courtly purpose, and social status. I think it is the same thing with keris, it is not just an ordinary sundang even if other dialects or groups call it as such.

I mentioned kalis as an evolved keris because there are still some people who think that kalis is a purely Islamic weapon or that it is purely of javanese origin. Some even think it is purely mindanaon, which is not.

Another thing is the redundancy in terms. Saying "talwar sword" "sundang sword" or "itak sword" are just wrong. But saying keris sword and naga sword are correct. Both keris and Naga identify, describe, and localize both swords according to symbol, meaning, design, form, and other cultural representation.

I don't think there is another term or word earlier than keris. Maybe there were words used for it but they meant sword not as specific names for a sword. They might have even called keris khadga, sanskrit for sword. Was khadga keris? not necessarily, but a khadga became a keris when specific functions, symbols, and meanings were ascribed to the latter. In other words, keris is khadga but khadga is not keris.

25th June 2008, 11:48 PM	#17
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	Even curiga is not a specific term related to just Keris. Batik fabric too has "parang curiga"-- curlicue or snake-like design. I think keris is specific for that kind of sword because of its use, meaning, and symbol being a court and ritual sword. hence, the word keras with many deep meanings describing that sword. Most blades or swords don't have specific names-- they are basically different words from different dialects and languages with the same meaning-- sword. for instance, talwar is Hindi for sword. Sundang is also a Filipino word for sword. In short, a keris can be sundang or talwar depending on the language or dialect used, but sundang and talwar are not kerises. In the philippines, a Keris or kalis can be called itak, taga, sundang the filipino words for sword, bolo, machete, and other that resemble to a sword. but in Muslim Mindanao it is kalis because it is not just a sword but a sword for ritual, courtly purpose, and social status. I think it is the same thing with keris, it is not just an ordinary sundang even if other dialects or groups call it as such. I mentioned kalis as an evolved keris because there are still some people who think that kalis is a purely Islamic weapon or that it is purely of javanese origin. Some even think it is purely mindanaon, which is not. Another thing is the redundancy in terms. Saying "talwar sword" "sundang sword" or "itak sword" are just wrong. But saying keris sword and naga sword are correct. Both keris and Naga identify, describe, and localize both swords according to symbol, meaning, design, form, and other cultural representation. I don't think there is another term or word earlier than keris. Maybe there were words used for it but they meant sword not as specific names for a sword. They might have even called keris khadga, sanskrit for sword. Was khadga keris? not necessarily, but a khadga became a keris when specific functions, symbols, and meanings were ascribed to the latter. In other words, keris is khadga but khadga is not keris. Last edited by baganing_balyan; 26th June 2008 at 12:23 AM.