Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

A. G. Maisey · 5th December 2017, 07:55 PM

Yes, the 5 luk keris has no wengkon, what appeared to be the wengkon, is in fact the steel slorok (core). In respect of the age of this keris I hesitate to put an age onto it. If I were to handle it I might feel more inclined to take a punt, but from a pic? Not really --- but still, how about later than 1700, earlier than 1900?

The 9 luk is definitely an older piece, it is not a Central Javanese style, I feel it may have been quite a decent keris when it was new, and I'm inclined to place it as pre-1800.

However, when we involve ourselves in putting dates AS WE UNDERSTAND TIME onto a Javanese keris we are engaging in a pretty silly exercise.

In many cases we can CLASSIFY a keris according to a Solonese originated system that we call "tangguh". Although this system principally uses the names of historic eras to classify a keris, the relationship of the classification to the historic era is part of a system of belief, it is not reality --- except in the case of later classifications, such as Surakarta, or Hamengkubuwanaan, or Kemardikan.

Another problem with tangguh is that the way it is used now is as a part of a selling system, in that everybody who buys a keris wants to hear a tangguh attached to it, and almost everybody who sells a keris wants to name a tangguh for the keris he is selling. This is modern usage, and has little relevance to the reasons for the initiation of the tangguh system.

This is what Jean meant when he said that the quality of the kerises was not high enough to permit giving a tangguh. In the classical sense Jean was absolutely correct. But in the modern sense I'd say that most current generation collectors would throw their hat into the ring and give an opinion for one tangguh or another. In fact, that is the meaning of the word "tangguh" = "opinion".

Here is a link to a few comments I wrote some years ago that may assist in gaining a slight understanding of the idea of "tangguh".

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/keristangguh.html

In respect of the hilts, the "corn cob" looks old, the planar I have no idea at all if old or recent, nor of material; in the hand I could say with reasonable certainty, from a photo I cannot. The planar hilt appears to be East Javanese in origin.

5th December 2017, 07:55 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,697	Yes, the 5 luk keris has no wengkon, what appeared to be the wengkon, is in fact the steel slorok (core). In respect of the age of this keris I hesitate to put an age onto it. If I were to handle it I might feel more inclined to take a punt, but from a pic? Not really --- but still, how about later than 1700, earlier than 1900? The 9 luk is definitely an older piece, it is not a Central Javanese style, I feel it may have been quite a decent keris when it was new, and I'm inclined to place it as pre-1800. However, when we involve ourselves in putting dates AS WE UNDERSTAND TIME onto a Javanese keris we are engaging in a pretty silly exercise. In many cases we can CLASSIFY a keris according to a Solonese originated system that we call "tangguh". Although this system principally uses the names of historic eras to classify a keris, the relationship of the classification to the historic era is part of a system of belief, it is not reality --- except in the case of later classifications, such as Surakarta, or Hamengkubuwanaan, or Kemardikan. Another problem with tangguh is that the way it is used now is as a part of a selling system, in that everybody who buys a keris wants to hear a tangguh attached to it, and almost everybody who sells a keris wants to name a tangguh for the keris he is selling. This is modern usage, and has little relevance to the reasons for the initiation of the tangguh system. This is what Jean meant when he said that the quality of the kerises was not high enough to permit giving a tangguh. In the classical sense Jean was absolutely correct. But in the modern sense I'd say that most current generation collectors would throw their hat into the ring and give an opinion for one tangguh or another. In fact, that is the meaning of the word "tangguh" = "opinion". Here is a link to a few comments I wrote some years ago that may assist in gaining a slight understanding of the idea of "tangguh". http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/keristangguh.html In respect of the hilts, the "corn cob" looks old, the planar I have no idea at all if old or recent, nor of material; in the hand I could say with reasonable certainty, from a photo I cannot. The planar hilt appears to be East Javanese in origin.