Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

ariel · 2nd January 2014, 09:41 AM

Alan,
Perhaps the word " legitimacy" is confusing in this aspect. By definition, its roots come from the Latin lex, law, or legitimare, to make something in accord with the law.
What "law" can be applied here? Nothing was ever universally codified, nothing was divinely or democratically approved by the legitimately ( Ahem:-)) established authorities. Local traditions, tastes, beliefs and superstitions ruled the coops.

Applying different time points further confounds the issue, as we can specify an almost endless number of them, with each excluding a percentage of examples from the discussion.

The "military" purpose of keris vanished quite some time ago. Should we use this time point as our yardstick? Industrial nickel was introduced only at the end of 19th-beginning of the 20th century. Should we exclude anything not of Prambanan or Luwa ( BTW, which one?) connection? Even more provocative: should a good looking Keris made by an Englishman in Birmingham and intended to grace a wall of a Japanese collector be viewed as " illegitimate"? Would the situation differ if the Birmingham master or the new owner were ethnic Indonesians?

My point is that there are as many collections as collectors and as many criteria of "legitimacy" as features. It is just what each of us prefers: history, age, tradition, level of perfection, wealth of decor, particular pamor.... you name it :-) Certainly, we cannot impose our criteria on Jawanese natives, but they in turn cannot impose their definitions ( and there are more than one cares to consider:-)) on the non-Jawanese collectors. If I am in the "Balinese camp", the "Surakarta lovers" may cringe at my poor taste and .... go and stuff it:-) Legitimacy may be codified in narrow, isolated and well-defined groups, but its confines weaken and blur the further we move away from them.

BTW, why polygamy is legitimate in Yemen and illegitimate in Iceland? Why do you , an Australian, drive on the wrong side of the road? Why can't I show soles of my shoes to a Saudi or pat a child on the head in Thailand? Why did Nixon's "V-sign" provoke embarrassment in South America? Why does a child of an unwed mother is perfectly fine in the US and is an "illegitimate bastard" with no rights or prospects for future marriage in so many societies? Why was the latter true even in the US until some 50-70 years ago ? What effected the change in the criterion of his/her "legitimacy"?

What I am driving at is that the "legitimacy" of Keris is a function of individual or societal taste, place and time, and those have a tendency to change :-)

2nd January 2014, 09:41 AM	#27
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Alan, Perhaps the word " legitimacy" is confusing in this aspect. By definition, its roots come from the Latin lex, law, or legitimare, to make something in accord with the law. What "law" can be applied here? Nothing was ever universally codified, nothing was divinely or democratically approved by the legitimately ( Ahem:-)) established authorities. Local traditions, tastes, beliefs and superstitions ruled the coops. Applying different time points further confounds the issue, as we can specify an almost endless number of them, with each excluding a percentage of examples from the discussion. The "military" purpose of keris vanished quite some time ago. Should we use this time point as our yardstick? Industrial nickel was introduced only at the end of 19th-beginning of the 20th century. Should we exclude anything not of Prambanan or Luwa ( BTW, which one?) connection? Even more provocative: should a good looking Keris made by an Englishman in Birmingham and intended to grace a wall of a Japanese collector be viewed as " illegitimate"? Would the situation differ if the Birmingham master or the new owner were ethnic Indonesians? My point is that there are as many collections as collectors and as many criteria of "legitimacy" as features. It is just what each of us prefers: history, age, tradition, level of perfection, wealth of decor, particular pamor.... you name it :-) Certainly, we cannot impose our criteria on Jawanese natives, but they in turn cannot impose their definitions ( and there are more than one cares to consider:-)) on the non-Jawanese collectors. If I am in the "Balinese camp", the "Surakarta lovers" may cringe at my poor taste and .... go and stuff it:-) Legitimacy may be codified in narrow, isolated and well-defined groups, but its confines weaken and blur the further we move away from them. BTW, why polygamy is legitimate in Yemen and illegitimate in Iceland? Why do you , an Australian, drive on the wrong side of the road? Why can't I show soles of my shoes to a Saudi or pat a child on the head in Thailand? Why did Nixon's "V-sign" provoke embarrassment in South America? Why does a child of an unwed mother is perfectly fine in the US and is an "illegitimate bastard" with no rights or prospects for future marriage in so many societies? Why was the latter true even in the US until some 50-70 years ago ? What effected the change in the criterion of his/her "legitimacy"? What I am driving at is that the "legitimacy" of Keris is a function of individual or societal taste, place and time, and those have a tendency to change :-)